Gentleman of Fortune Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I am assuming that there was a ships biscuit/hard tack kind of thing for our period. I think there is an original from the later 18th Century. Flour- water- salt, round cake with "holes" for breaking in it... Same for GAoP or? There is an interesting thread at the Frontier Folk forum http://frontierfolk.net/ipw-web/bulletin/b...opic.php?t=5974 and here is a biscuit maker that Mike Ameling made Any thoughts? GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 From the 1701 Admiralty regulations for victualling, daily allowance per man: "One pound avoirdupois of good sound, clean, well bolted with a horse cloth, well baked, and well conditioned wheaten biscuit." South of 39N rusk could be substituted for biscuit. Writing in the mid 1720s the Swiss Cesar de Saussure described RN issue biscuits, "as large as a plate, white, and so hard that those sailors who have no teeth, or bad ones, must crush them or soften them with water. I found them, however, very much to my taste, and they reminded me of nuts." Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Thanks Foxe... I think what I am getting at though is, would something like the above press be good for GAoP, or would any shape biscuit be ok? I really like that press.... GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 "so hard that those sailors who have no teeth, or bad ones, must crush them or soften them with water. I found them, however, very much to my taste, and they reminded me of nuts." I've eaten them. and I concur: hard to chew, but very tasty! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Was this the biscuit you meant? This is only about 4", so much smaller than those described by Saussure. The prick marks are much smaller than those in the photo you posted GoF, and the broad arrow marks are missing. The prick marks might be to do with the size, and only official Admiralty biscuit would have had the broad arrow marks anyway. Similarly, de Saussure was talking specifically about RN issue biscuit, so it's quite on the cards that merchant and private ships may have had different shaped and sized biscuit. Hope so, the stuff I carry around is square! Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 An interesting "Cheat" for anyone that wants to make hardtack/Sea biscuits... Add a little oil to the dough mix... It can't be documented, but you can eat the biscuit then.... Flour, salt and water makes "Play Dough"... With the oil, you have something that will keep forever, and is eatable...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Vegtable oil or olive oil? THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Dosen't matter, I use vegetable oil.... I've eaten the Play Dough ones.... and the ones with oil..... you can actully eat the ones with oil..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barber-surgeon Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Then too...when I read in some of the transcripts about "biscuits", I do tend to catch myself wondering, 'do they mean as in American Bisquits or British Bisquits..?' British Bisquits=American cookies Always a giggle that, the Separation by a common language! Cheers! "Don't worry, it's not My Blood!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Paul Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I recently bought a useful little book entitled MARINER'S MEALTIMES & OTHER DAILY DETAILS of life on board a sailing warship By Una A. Robertson Published by the Unicorn Preservation Society it contains lots of useful information about food and provisions on board ship in the 19th Century. This is an excerpt on the subject of ships biscuits. "Everyone has heard of ships' biscuits, nicknamed "Purser's Nuts," that were served in lieu of "soft tommy" (bread). The decreed ration was 1 lb per man per day. They were made in the Royal Bakeries attached to the dockyards where 70X4 oz biscuits could be produced every minute. We are told that they were "round, thick and well-browned biscuits stamped with a purforator in the middle" which compressed the centre into an unbelievable hardness. Made from a mixture of wheat and pea flour, sometimes adulterated by bone dust, they were unspeakably tough." The "Perforator" described is doubtless the item at the head of this topic. However, since it is unlikly that it would be possible to compress uncooked dough to unbelievable hardness with a hand held stamp, I thaink that the auther has missinterprited its function. Whilst it is a simple matter to roll a ball of dough flat, and punch a few holes into it with a pointed stick, this process would take anything upto a couple of minutes to perform. As they were being produced at the rate of 70 per minute, using the stamp would reduce the actions of rolling and pricking to one single action taking only seconds. The length of the spikes would also ensuere a uniformity of thickness which would be important in ensuring an even cooking. This stamp was used for making biscuits at a rate of over 4,000 per hour, in order to meet the demands of a Navy contract. I imagine that bakeries producing hard tack for merchant or civil use would not have been under such pressures to turn out biscits at such a rate, they probably had the time to make them by hand. MARINERS'MEALTIMES goes on to say. "But They were not neccessarily eaten just as a biscuit. They could be used in all sorts of ways; for example, soaked in water then fried with strips of pork fat: pounded in a canvas bag with a marlin spike until they resembled coarse flour, then mixed with chopped up meat and baked by the cook: a mixture of pounded biscuit and pork fat and sugar "made a delectable cake": and there was a was a mixture called "Scotch Coffee" - burnt ships' biscuits "boiled in water till (it resembled a) thick blacking paste then sweetened." This, believe it or not, was a favourite breakfast dish." An interesting "Cheat" for anyone that wants to make hardtack/Sea biscuits...Add a little oil to the dough mix...It can't be documented, but you can eat the biscuit then.... Any type of shortening will do this. Lard, suet, butter. it prevents the biscuit from drying out and hardening. they are quite tasty this way, but you can no longer keep them on your ships manafest for three years. "Tall Paul" Adams Cpt "Tall Paul" Adams Colchester Historical Enactment Society (C.H.E.S.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLY BONES Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Of course, for those who don't want to, or don't have the culinary talent to make them, you can order hardtack from two sources. One is the Mechanical Baking Co., and the other (which I recommend) is Bent's Cookie Factory. Both have made hardtack since the 1850s, and Bent's makes them on the original dies. Look at Bent's website (www.bentscookiefactory.com), and with alittle research, you'll find a rounder biscuit than their square Civil War biscuit. It looks quite similar to the above example. If I remember correctly, they sell the crackers in boxes of 20. Nice people to deal with too, and have a good handle on the history of hardtack. BB Capt. William Bones Then he rapped on the door with a bit of stick like a handspike that he carried, and when my father appeared, called roughly for a glass of rum. This, when it was brought to him, he drank slowly, like a connoisseur, lingering on the taste, and still looking about him at the cliffs and up at our signboard. "This is a handy cove," says he, at length; " and a pleasant sittyated grog-shop. Much company, mate?" My father told him no, very little company, the more was the pity. "Well, then," said he, "this is the berth for me." Proprietor of Flags of Fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 ... pounded in a canvas bag with a marlin spike until they resembled coarse flour, then mixed with chopped up meat and baked by the cook... Add some dried peas and a bit of bacon fat, and you've got yourself a palatable Welsh Pie. :) Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 You'll probably need a dentist if you bite into any o' them real ship's biscuits...breaks teeth really well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 That's why I suggested the bacon fat with the smashed biscuits and such. A bit of oil can make the biscuits at least a bit less harsh on the teeth. Bake it all into a Welsh Pie, and your belly won't growl for at least another 16 hours. Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I made a mistake sending this thread to one of my ship's cooks. So, today I had duty and was called down to the galley for my normal duties and sitting out there was two ship's biscuits. One was made with olive oil added and the other was more standard. It had the dimples in it that looked like he used a meat cleaver or something for the design, but it did look good. The one with olive oil was a bit flakey and just a little saltier than some of the buscuits we've had aboard at times. The other was not nearly as flakey, but was still rather palatable, about as salty as saltine crackers, but more substantial. I think the next time we go off shore for a few days, we'll probably find a tin of hard tack for any seasick crewmembers. Also, this is the only hard tack I've heard of being made on Coast Guard Cutters lately. Keep the tradition alive! Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Roberts Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 So i'll drag this thread from Davy Jones' locker. So I would think that if they used wheat flour for the biscuts, I would assume it to be what we call whole wheat today. I mom has gotten into milling her own whole wheat berries. The bread produced from that flour is fairly dark brown. I would think that would be closer to what they would have had "back in the day" for the biscuts. What do you all think? Also anyone tried to make thier own? I'm definity trying this weekend. Anybody got a recipe? I see that flour, water,and salt is the ingredients. I guess you just mix them until you get a dough like substance. MMM... I'll have to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCholeBlack Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 thanks for digging this up jack. I'm guessing they would be made like "sack bread" where you add your liquid to a sack of flour & stir until it creates a dough leaving behind the extra flour. I found it interesting that noone mentioned that the pricking ie docking, is used to prevent dough from rising. even a simple bisquit of flour & water will rise a little as the water evaporates & becomes steam. so docking is used to keep doughs flat (& thus pretty hard). "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tightpants Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 So i'll drag this thread from Davy Jones' locker. So I would think that if they used wheat flour for the biscuts, I would assume it to be what we call whole wheat today. I mom has gotten into milling her own whole wheat berries. The bread produced from that flour is fairly dark brown. I would think that would be closer to what they would have had "back in the day" for the biscuts. What do you all think? Also anyone tried to make thier own? I'm definity trying this weekend. Anybody got a recipe? I see that flour, water,and salt is the ingredients. I guess you just mix them until you get a dough like substance. MMM... I'll have to try. I'm going to have to try it, too. I keep threatening all around me with an experiment in ship's biscuit and salt cod. I agree strongly that the stuff we've seen - in the thread above, and on Bent's website - is far, far too white. According to my cookery books, the white bread we're used to - called manchet - would have only been seen by ordinary people on special occasions, if ever at all. The refined flour required to make manchet was, comparably speaking, considerably more expensive than "bran flour," making white bread the stuff of the wealthy man's table. Therefore I find it impossible that the notoriously parsimonious Royal Navy would contract for biscuits comprised solely of white wheaten flour. Somebody got an original contract/receipt? P.S. - Robert May's The Accomplisht Cook (my copy is a fascimile of the 1685 edition) lists several recipes for manchet, and more for brown bread. All in all, it's a fascinating source for experimenting with C17 English cookery. Stand and deliver! Robert Fairfax, Freelance Rapscallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCholeBlack Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Rather successful I'd say. I used 50-50 flour (half white half wheat). I did add about 2 tablespoons of oil for flakeyness. I doucked 1 bisquit & laft the other flat. The non-docked one had several bubbles while the docked version had only 1 in a spot I didn't poke enough. SO I'd venture to say the docking is to keep them flat. I like them. Would I want to live on them& scummy water, no. But they were quite good with bean stew. "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Paul Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Therefore I find it impossible that the notoriously parsimonious Royal Navy would contract for biscuits comprised solely of white wheaten flour. Somebody got an original contract/receipt? I refer you to my previous post, They were made from a mixture of Wheat Flour and Pea Flour, that is ground up dried peas. Although the use of pea flour was obviously for reasons of economy, it probably added valuable protein to the sailors diet. the cost was further reduced by adulterating the mixture with bone dust. I did add about 2 tablespoons of oil for flakeyness Adding oil or fat to the mixture is a modern "Cheat" to make the biscuits more edible. shortening was not used in the origional recipy, as this woul have compromised the long shelf life (Three years or more) of the ships biscuits. Ships biscuits were "Thrice Cooked" to remove the last vestige of moisture from them. in modern terms, this equates to several hours in a medium oven. Cpt "Tall Paul" Adams Colchester Historical Enactment Society (C.H.E.S.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCholeBlack Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 thankfully Paul I don't have to be keeping them for the long haul. However I was more interested in seeing if they would raise without docking or not. Plus having something palatable to feed the little swab was a bonus. One question, how thick were these rolled to? I'm assuming fairly thin right? "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 With reference to colour may I likewise direct to my previous posts, particularly this quotation: Writing in the mid 1720s the Swiss Cesar de Saussure described RN issue biscuits, "as large as a plate, white, and so hard that those sailors who have no teeth, or bad ones, must crush them or soften them with water. I found them, however, very much to my taste, and they reminded me of nuts." And this picture of some genuine 18thC ship's biscuit Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I think I'd rather eat Motza's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Roberts Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Interesting Foxe! I would have thought that they would have used the "cheaper" flour for the sake of cost. So the quote says. So maybe it was a white flour or maybe the "pea" flour and bone dust lightened the color a bit. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 And maybe that is just one of many different ships biscuts made. If its for a contract, you can bet they are going to cut some corners. Greg Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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