capnwilliam Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I'm trying to determine whether shipboard grog - back in the day when it was part of a seaman's official daily rations - was served hot or cold. Also, what exactly was the formula? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Either, so long as it's 9 days old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I would think it was served at whatever the air temperature was.... Mayhaps in colder climes they could go about heating it... And the formula varies... 4 to 1 water to rum is one, 1 to 1 is another, some even had sugar added... Some later added lime juice too... This is from a mixed drink site.... GROG Originally a mixture of rum and water that was issued to sailors in the royal navy and later improved with the addition of lime juice and sugar. Now a grog is any kind of drink usually made with a rum base, fruit and various sweeteners and served hot or cold in a large mug or glass. SO... take it as you may... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Order to Captains No. 349 on August 21, 1740: "the daily allowance of rum be every day mixed with the proportion of a quart of water to a half pint of rum, to be mixed in a scuttled butt kept for that purpose, and to be done upon the deck, and in the presence of the Lieutenant of the Watch who is to take particular care to see that the men are not defrauded in having their full allowance of rum... and let those that are good husband men receive extra lime juice and sugar that it be made more palatable to them." http://www.pussers.com/rum/history I would think it was served 'room' (ship?) temperature... das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Two small points: 1. Although the original order was for the mixing of rum and water, by 1785 "grog" could mean any watered down spirits. Exactly when it cam back to being specifically rum based I couldn't say. 2. "Grog" is not, so far as anyone can ascertain, a period term for the GAoP. It was probably a corruption of "old Grogram", the nickname of Admiral Vernon who issued the order Das quoted. The earliest reference to the word in the OED is as late as 1770. I appreciate that for you Baratarians it's ok, jut thought I'd chime in for those earlier folks amongst us. As late as 1699 rum was considered a landsman's drink, not really fit for good hard-working tars. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I believe the correct pre-Grog term is simply "punch", right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Right, JR...here's some info: "It is commonly purported that British sailors "discovered" punch - fully formed - in India in the 16th Century. The drink's name derives from the Hindustani (Hindu) word for "five" (roughly transcribed as panch) referring to the five ingredients that first are alleged to have composed the beverage. As usual with both history and recipes, however, the story has many variations. One source asserts that the five ingredients reflect the five distinct elements necessary in punch, those being sweet, sour, bitter, weak, and alcoholic. The ingredients, then, were sugar, a bitter aperitif, lemon juice, beer, and pure alcohol. A second source called for a rather different recipe, however. In this punch, tea, arrack(arrack n. [Ar. araq sweat, juice, spirituous liquor, fr. araqa to sweat. Cf. Rack arrack.] A name in the East Indies and the Indian islands for all ardent spirits. Arrack is often distilled from a fermented mixture of rice, molasses, and palm wine of the cocoanut tree or the date palm, etc. ), sugar, lemons, and water were the necessary ingredients. A third source provides the following definition: [Punch] is commonly supposed to come from the Indian word "panch," the Sanskrit word "panchan" and/or the Persian word "panj"- all meaning five, from the fact that this concoction usually is made with five ingredients. But a long note in the Oxford English Dictionary points out that in the 17th century punch was almost certainly pronounced poonch, as it still is in the north of England, and that this being so, its origin from an Indian source is improbable, especially as the number of ingredients does not seem to have been at any time so fixed as to give origin to a name. Moreover, several early references to the word show that punch was particularly a seaman's drink and it is suggested that the name originated, not in India, but on the way thither and may have been a sailor's shortening of puncheon. Punch now is a beverage composed of wine or spirits with hot water, milk or tea, and flavoured with sugar, lemon, some spice or cordial. Of all the spirits which can excellently be used to make a punch (using the word alone one expects it to be hot; if cold, the word is qualified by iced) rum is the one which comes to the mind of the public. And of all fruits, the lime is the most popular." Complete Article Didn't we just have something ...somewhere...about pirates demanding 'punch' from their victims??? I *think* I remember something like that. AND I wanna know why - if THAT is punch, why is American punch made from Hawwaiian Punch, pineapple juice, ginger ale and sherbert?? Blech. I guess we need a little rum in it to make it REAL punch, but still... das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I also heard somewhere that they used egg or egg whites. Could that be correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Didn't we just have something ...somewhere...about pirates demanding 'punch' from their victims??? I *think* I remember something like that.AND I wanna know why - if THAT is punch, why is American punch made from Hawwaiian Punch, pineapple juice, ginger ale and sherbert?? Blech. Cuz otherwise ther'd be a mess o' plastered 8-year olds stumblin round the street corners operatin' some seriously popular "lemonade" stands in the summertime..... Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 See, over here "punch" doesn't have a recipe per se, it's just what you get when you mix drinks up in a big bowl. There are several recipes, but trying to define a punch is like saying that a cocktail always has sasparilla in it. The term punch certainly turns up quite frequently in GAoP era writings, and earlier. The real preferred drink of the seaman, at least according to Ward, was "flip", which in that case could be as simple as beer and spirits mixed, and sometimes warmed. Flip or punch could, but did not necessarily, contain egg whites Seamen enjoying punch from a puncheon From France we get brandy, from Jamaica comes rum, Sweet oranges and lemons from Portugal come, Strong beer and good cider in England is sold, Give to me the punch ladle, I'll fathom the bowl. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I always enjoy looking at that picture, Foxe. Looks like a damn good time and what I wouldn't give to be in a chair listening to their conversation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 From France we get brandy, from Jamaica comes rum,Sweet oranges and lemons from Portugal come, Strong beer and good cider in England is sold, Give to me the punch ladle, I'll fathom the bowl. It's the first Bahama Mama!! das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymm Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) This description of punch is taken from César de Saussure, A Foreign View of England In The Reigns Of George I and George II. from his letter dated Oct 29th 1726 A considerable quantity of punch is drunk. You may have heard of this drink, but very likely do not know how it is made. It is composed of sour and sweet, of strong and of weak. In order to make a good punch you must take the juice of four lemons, of two bitter oranges for a bowl containing three pots, this drink is always made in a big china bowl. You must have a lump of sugar the size of your fist, according to taste whether you like it sweet or not. Next add old brandy from Nantes, in France, which must be mellow; this again to suit your taste. The best punch is then made from two liquors that are brought from the Indies -one of them is rum, the other arak. Rum is a sort of brandy made in the West Indies with the dregs or refuse of the sugar cane. It is stronger than brandy, so you must add less of it to the punch. Arak comes from the East Indies and is extracted from rice. This is a sweet liquor, and you must add almost as much of it to the punch as you would of spring water. This liquor makes a most agreeable and attractive drink. A stranger who has not tasted it before will find it so good and sweet that he will drink of it without a thought that it might inconvenience him, but he will not fail to find out its hidden strength. A light punch in summer time is a most acceptable and refreshing drink, and slakes the thirst much more efficatiously than wine would. In winter time this drink is taken hot. A couple of glasses of that should fell a bull elephant (Mind you all elephants are lightweights when it comes to a proper session =o) I remain your beshtest mate inna whoooole wide world, nah I am really... yah bassardds I tek the lota yah, one at at time or all t'gev*hic*ver meks no difference to me....gwan giz a hug I wuz only joke we still mates right bestest mates look I know I've 'ad a little drinky but 'strue y'know, Grymm Edited August 1, 2009 by Grymm Lambourne! Lambourne! Stop that man pissin' on the hedge, it's imported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cat Jenny Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Wow this was a great education..and gives me a great thirst! Foxe, your later post answered the question I was just geting ready to ask. That if Rum was a lubbers drink then what was the preferred Sailors beverage? That was quite interesting and I had not read that before. Perhaps you can expand on what the officers preferred aboard? I'm sure there was brandy and wine etc. With alcohol coming from so many areas of the world at that time, I'm sure there was a variety..depending on where one sailed. I understand South America produced many wines in that era as did France etc..and of course rum in the Caribbean as well as other spirits. Was there one or two things that were staple for the better class of Officers their guests or passengers? Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBrower Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I wish I could find where I found the info originally, but "we" found one recipe that called for spices (cinnamon and cloves mainly) lime juice, sugar and rum. I happen to like this recipe because the spices keep it well (Sean was drinking some that was at least two weeks old and said it only got better and that was without the rum!). It is absolutely delicious hot or cold. Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Punch recipes were closely guarded personal secrets passed down in families well into the Victorian age...it became a matter of pride to make the most devastating beverage by means of alcohol and later by the teetotalers who made non-alcoholic versions to mimic their alcohol based competitors. So virtually every recipe is accurate to period if it was ever served during the time frame as many variations were determined by the spirits and juices available when the punch was being concocted; sort of like college "trash-can grain punch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sea Trade Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 My favorite punch, and one credibly reputed to date to as early as 1732, is Fish House Punch. Smooth, delicious and powerful... 3/4 lb. loaf sugar in a bowl, with just enough water over it to dissolve Add 1 quart lemon juice 2 quarts Jamaica rum 1 quart brandy 2 quarts water a wineglass of peach brandy Allow to mix and mellow for two hours, stirring regularly Apply as needed. It can be made in smaller quantities, but why? Red Sea Trade In days of old when ships were bold just like the men that sailed 'em, and if they showed us disrespect we tied 'em up and flailed 'em, often men of low degree and often men of steel, they'd make you walk the plank alone or haul you 'round the keel. --Adam and the Ants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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