DuCouer Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I have just checked out Loyalist arms....What a cool site and great prices. I was wondering though...why are most military or pirate swords single edged? I am thinging of purchasing the english saber. It is beautiful with the hand guard, straight blade and it is dual edged. Ducouer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 If a blade is designed for thrust. a double edged blade has the edge - unintentional pun - over a single edged, for entry. If a blade is designed for cut, the heavier blunted back edge of a single edged weapon adds to the slicing power. Also, the blunt back edge is safer for the user; hence the expression that something is "a double edged sword", if it can turn around and get you, the user! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Just thought I'd drop a note... Brethren of the Coast website has a page loaded with links on where to find pirate garb, pirate swords and other piratical stuff. Some of the swords I looked at looked pretty good, though I'd have to hold it in my hand to see for sure. Capt. WE Roberts "I shall uphold my indignity with the utmost dignity befitting a person of my undignified station." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuCouer Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 My very first sword was a WWII Non-Com Japanese Katana. I have since aquired 2 other katana (Katana are easier to come by then other swords), a broad sword a Rapier and a Claymore. I do not claim to an expert but I do have some experience with them. I guess my question was this: Why did pirates prefer the cutlass to the rapier? While later versions of the rapier were for thrust only several from the late 1500's to mis 1600's were cut and thrust. Was the Cutlass just a derivitive of the military saber? Any way...I am still searching for a nice blending of both. As a navice swordsman I just find cut and thrust easier to use. DuCouer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 DeCouer, Ta answer yer wonderment of why a pyrate would prefer a cutlass o'er a rapier... take a gander in the "Borders Away" subforum of the "Rabblerousing" Forum... Yer answers lay there.... Quick answer; A cutlass is much more useful in close quarter combat, and just plain more useful aboard a ship... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I believe that a skilled thrust style fighter has a considerable advantage over a cut stylist, when facting a single opponent, and when he has adequate room in which to maneuver. But note my three qualifications: personal skill, a single adversary, and room to move in. Shipboard actions were more of a free for all involving minimally skilled swordsmen operating in tight quarters. Given these conditions, I'd prefer a cutlass; better then a rapier, and better than a sabre because of its shorter length. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Capt. Willaim... I disagree with your assesment of shipboard fighting. First of all, they were not all free for alls. Also, the men were far from minimally skilled with swords. Some of them were extremely good with swords and pistols etc.. While I am sure that there were some that were not very good, many more were very good and quite skilled swordsmen. Now, one point is very accurate. That is that shipborad fighting was in tight areas and not much room to work a long sword in. However, despite this, rapiers were also a favorite weapon of many men to use. The cutlass was a well made weapon for shipboard use because of it's length. It was also a popular weapon of the time for army soldiers as well. If you study colonial history, you will see that the adaptation of a cutlass style weapon became very popular with the military. Rapiers became carried for ceremony, duels, and by gentlemen as part of their walking attire. However, that is not to say that is not to say that they weren't used by seam men as part of thier everyday weapon.... The Capt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captweaver65 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 given the frequency and popularity of pressing/shanghaing for crews.I agree with Capn William in that most of the swordsmen would be lacking training-it takes a good bit of time devoted to practice to become good at the various forms of swordfighting and this time for training was much more prevalent among the higher classes which were not usuallly taken for ship crews. Capt Weaver "No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned. A man in jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company. " Dr. Samuel Johnson Capt Weaver's Pirate Perversions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Hmmm..... I agree with Capt. Flint... Now, Aye, the pressgangs, etc did put many a novice onboard, However, they did practice, some captains had their crews more practiced than others..... Their was an allowance of both Gunnery and Hand Weapons practice on HM Ships.... Give me two weeks, one ta two hours a day, an' I could have the beginner able to hold their own in the worst foray... If they have the aptitude for it, even better.... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolie Rouge Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Tis a right admirable point on the royal navy, but yer average pirate didn't hail from navy ships. From what I've read yer average pirate would 'ave hailed from merchant ships, or if they was lucky a privateer. There's no promise that any privately owned vessel is gonna 'ave decent, or regular training especially the merchantmen who were known fer never doing anything above, and beyond getting cargo around. Aye, the British navy was well trained, which is why yer average swab on the account RAN FROM THE NAVY when ever possible. On the rapier subject. I see's the rapier as a precise tool requiring great skill. now try ta do all that fancy leg work, an' accurate pokin' o' people on a rollin' deck in a seaway, it's gonna be bloody hard if not impossible. Fer my money I'd much rather bash someone in the head wit' the guard on me cutlass, then hack em as they lay on the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 Just as a thought... I continued this topic on the..Boarders Away header in rabble Rousing. I just thought that it was a better place to continue this subject........ The Capt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuCouer Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Ok so Back to the subject of where to buy swords. I have been try ing to find some sights that deal with Napoleanic and Relutionary War renactment. Only one decent hit so far and that would be militaryheritage.com. Some decent looking swords in the 200 price range. I think I am going to go with loyalist arms. Any other places I should check out??? DuCouer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Aye, back to the "Boarders Away" topic, to discuss sword fighting! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stynky Tudor Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Arr DuCouer, I was going to suggest a couple sites: The Civil War section of Replica Weaponry http://www.replicaweaponry.com/index.html http://www.replicaweaponry.com/civwarsworre.html and The Sword section of Antique Firearms http://www.antique-firearms.com/ But as for quality I'm not sure that they hold a candle to the site you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 A bit about the cutlass. Short, important when you have to climb ships rigging for a livin'. Heavy, dull blade. When boarding, a sidearm should break arms, shoulders, anything it comes in contact with as a maimed enemy took others to help him, thus less men to fight. And prisoners were better trade goods than dead men. The notion of fencing when boarding a vessel is absurd. Grappling hooks, boarding pikes,boarding axes, locks, all meant to take the prize, not join the royal society of errolflynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 'Ello, all. Just thought I'd drop a line about a new sword I saw. It was on ebay, and it was called "Captain Hook's sword." It looked a lot like the cutlass that pinned the kidnap note to the door in the movie "Hook" with Dustin Hoffman as Hook and Robin Williams as (a grown up) Peter Pan. It was black and silver. Around $25-35, as far as I remember. Speaking of the movie "Hook," that movie seems to be a good place to start when designing your own costume. Captain James Hook's costume is incrediblly detailed. The other extras dressed as pirates might be a good start, too, only you might have to pause your VCR or DVD player to get a good look at one of them. If you thought life was difficult, you never tried love, Capt. WE Roberts "I shall uphold my indignity with the utmost dignity befitting a person of my undignified station." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Aye, Royaliste, ye have it right, have ye! Climbing rigging, jumping from one rolling vessel to another, crowded gunwales: not a scenario for well-timed thrusts! Just hack and slash: a real melee if e'er there was one! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateMunkee Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 My very first Pirate sword I took a machette I bought down in Honduras. I busted off the plastic handle and went to a machine shop and had them create a shield guard. I then hand carved the wood to replace the plastic handle. Looked awesome. A machette has that perfect Pirate sword look. Right now I am looking for a spanish type sword to go along with my spanish Dagger I picked up at Medieval times. Nice heavy dagger with no blade but easily fixed with a grinder and wetting stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Probably the machete blade makes for a light carry and wield, also, Munkee? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Greetings. I fear I'm a bit late to the party. I see you've already done an excellent job of covering the ground for available cutlasses, and a frustratingly small ground it is at that. I do have a couple of thoughts to add, but I'll get to them later. For now, I'd like to share three of my favorite internet "sword sites", though some of you may already be familiar with them. The first is Sword Forum International. I know at least one of you is familiar with the place, as I've had a couple of good parleys with Red Maria there. I recall her telling us about the auction of Captain Tew's belongings, poor soul, may he rest in peace. I was able to find a picture at picture at Christie's of his elegant, if pricey, little strong box, but fear I never came up with a pic of the cutlass. Arrgh. To get back to the site itself I think of Sword Forum as "sword central" on the internet. The forums there have members from all over the world ranging from kids interested in anime swords to very serious collectors and scholars of the sword. Not to mention a couple of authors of historical fiction. Aside from the forums, there's a considerable amount of informational resources. The Museum Store there is an attempt by Adrian Ko and his staff to defray the costs of running the site, but the forums are by no means commercial. The store is there to support the site, rather than the other way around. If you see what I mean. Unless you register, you will have a heck of a time getting to the forums without a treasure map, so I'll provide this clue for those who want to lurk a bit before they commit: SFI Forums. If you want to post, you'll have to register and are asked to do so with your real name (mine is Scott Bubar). Here is a recent cutlass thread there inspired by POTC: Pirate cutlasses. Which reminds me, I meant to post that nice Butterfields "Caribbean" cutlass there. The second site is NetSword. I love this little site, and have been a member for many years. Although the focus is on the European medieval period, all are welcome. The place is laid-back with a laissez-faire approach. There actually are moderators, but they're often off doing there thing for long periods of time (months), but the members do an excellent job of keeping the peace amongst themselves (usually). This site is non-commercial. You can read the forums without registering, but must register to post. Screen names are OK. (Mine is Sikandur,) Lastly, there's .VikingSword.com. This is really two sites rolled into one: the Medieval Sword Resource Site and the Ethnographic Sword Resource site. And resources are to be had there in plenty. The forums there are for the true sword afficianado. The tremendous amount of edged weapon knowledge some of these folks carry about in their heads is matched only by the size of their libraries. But they're nice, helpful folks willing to share their knowledge, so don't be afraid to post. It is a non-commercial site. You can lurk without registering, but must register to post. Screen names are OK. I only occasionally post there, but when I do it is under my real name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateMunkee Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Probably the machete blade makes for a light carry and wield, also, Munkee? Capt. William Yeah it does. I like a heavy blade myself but the machette was all show, Pretty good for a first sword. Next step, making a real one. The Atlanta Cutlery Company has blank blades ready for customizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stynky Tudor Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 PirateMunkee, your Honduran machete be sounding smart as paint, have you any pictures of it to share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinStGraves Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Just came into an assortment of swords and knives an am making them available for very reasonable prices. If interestested email me for an image. 2 ea. Cerci ~ 100 years war reproduction swords ~ 22" Blades ~ $120. ea. 1 ea. Scottish Basket Hilt Sword ~ 33" Blade ~ $200 2 ea. Aluminum Blade Cutlass 27" Blade ~ $180. ea 1 ea. Steel Cutlass 29" Blade ~ $360. 1 ea. Samurai Sword ~ 29" Aluminum Blade ~ $180. 1 ea. Swept Hilt Rapier ~ 34" Aluminum Bladed ~ $150. 1 ea. Swept Hilt Rapier ~ 38" Steel Blade $150. 1 ea. Boarding Sword ~ 23.5" Steel Blade ~ $180. 1 ea. Tri-Blade Main Gauche ~ 12" Blade ~ $96. 1 ea. Curved Knife ~ 13" Aluminum Blade $100. 1 ea. Curved Knife ~ 13" Steel Blade $100. 1 ea. East Indian Knife ~ 11" Blade $30. 1 ea. One of a Kind Custom Finger Bone serrated Cutlass 28 " Blade ~ $1500. These items are all in good to excellent condition. Email Grattidge@prodigy.net for images Lusty Winds my Friends, Robin St Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateMunkee Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 PirateMunkee, your Honduran machete be sounding smart as paint, have you any pictures of it to share? I don't right now but I will take some and get them scanned. Damn I need a Digital Camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovingtar Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Has anyone tried out weapons of choice. They specialize in weapons for stage combat. Weapons of Choice 4075 Browns Valley Rd, Napa, CA, 94558 catalog rentals; firearms, swords, medieval to modern items (707) 226-2845 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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