the Royaliste Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 :) My last post on this topic as I've ships worrk to perform....We all know who we are or wish we were, I just hope ye can smell the difference betwixt the King's Navy....and your Brethren ..........Sails off..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor syn Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Another first poster takes his life in his hands........Last Year I attended A large multi-period event in my normal 1745 Jacobite kit..Having noticed a Pirate group was attending I thought it would be interesting to have a look.....Yes...well....Costumes ranged from 1650-1750,Weaponry owed a lot to Fantasy..BUT,they enjoyed themselves!!...I'm sure both types can flourish..The Authentic at historical events & the "Generic" at the more entertainment orientated. Certainly in the U.K. historical groups have spent many years shaking off the "fancy dress" image,so I can understand why more conventional re-enactors may view such an approach as Heresy.We don't have Ren faire/SCA type events over here & all groups tend to be valued by their authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Maudlin McCrumb Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I fully believe in being historically accurate when you're teaching the subject. When you're reenacting for a group of mundanes, yet again, the need is clear... When you come wandering through my campsite at 6:30 in the morning with a Pepsi in yer hand and Ray-Bans on yer face and bitch that my tent isn't period when you know damn well I can't afford your fancy-assed yert over in the royals encampment, and that the elastic in my cuffs is out of date, yer gonna get pummeled by the rest of us who you are discriminating against because we just don't have the money to afford the finery, and we are just there to have some fun. Nail me at Twelfth Night. THere is a time and a place for being an authenticity Nazi... wander through my HOUSE and do it, and my very real, very period, very battle ready cutlass will be drawn and you will be asked what your problem is! If I"m just having a good time.. ease off. If I am trying to be authentic, and I CLAIM to be authentic, then HELP me.. don't just critisize. In battle, yes, at my campsite while I"m trying to feed my kids, hell no... "You have a woman's skin, m'lord! I'll wager that hides never been rubbed with salt and flayed off to make stockin's for a pirates best cabin boy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor syn Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Couldn't agree more...When I'm making the breakfast cup of tea I don't need someone looking down their nose at me because I havn't used flint & steel to start my open fire( mind you, if someone lets me put my kettle on their authenti-fire that's fine...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Grab a sweep, put yer backs into it, and row, me hearties!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I hear rants! Let me hear some more coments from my first post! Baptiste I think the reason people have not been responding as you would wish is perhaps that you are not being specfic enough. Exactly where do you feel that we are weak in authenticity and why. Also when depicting period piracy (anything from Elizabethan sea dogs to the privateers of 1812, from the Spainsh Main to the Coast of Malabar) you are looking a group with a wide range of cultures, customs and costumes. Let's take garb for instance. It's very hard to peg what a pirate would wear because even in primary source material (e.g. trial accounts, execution accounts reports to the admiralty ect.) pirates are discribed in various and sundry ways. From beings dressed in rags to velvet coat and breeches. Pirates came in contact with many different cultures and could operate in many differnt areas. There were those who criss-crossed the Atlantic and ventured into the Indian Ocean. Some ventured into the Pacific. This means a pirate could aquire a wide array of booty and weaponry. The only thing a pirate could'nt aquire is something not available at that time period (whatever period is being depicted). This can become even more confusing at a venue depicting a time period differnt than what a particular group usually depicts (at the case of some Ren. Faires) or the venue tries to inflict a non-period participants in a other period event (Ojai Pirate Festival which is suppose to be anything from the Age of Buccaneers to the Golden Age of piracy but insists in having Elizabeth I as the Pirate Queen and her court). There is also the matter (as I stated in an earlier post) of politics and what a certain group or groups decide is period whether or not it is or isn't. What is determined to be period is not always determined through research but through personal preference and prejudice of whomever is in charge. Also it's hard to sift through the evidence in hand and come up what was the true nature of pirate life. Personal accounts from pirates are rare. The accounts of those captured by pirates are of course biased and often spiced up for commericial purposes. The discovery of the Whydah is perhaps the best hard evidence we have of day to day life of pirates as well as what a pirates tresure trove was like. But it still doesn't tell us much of the nature Black Sam and his crew. There is still a lot of room for speculation. This is were imgaination comes in and there's seems to be an abundence of that with this lot! Imagination dose not sit well with (not all!) in the re-enactment community. Also that potraying pirates means by definition you don't play the rules and tow the line (unless it's to raise a sail ;-D). Since many of the re-enactment community is military, pirates by nature rub them the wrong way and they don't mind letting us know it! Hence the rants you see posted. Am I in any way answering your question yet? I am really trying to be helpful. Honstly! :) Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Being a pirate group for more than 20 years now, we've only recently drifted into the ren faire environment. We had always heard the tales of people checking thread counts on costumes and such in the name of "authenticity". But we've had no problems at these events just being ourselves. We're pirates through and through - it's an attitude you carry, not a particular accurate weapon. And let's all be honest here, we're just playing pirate so the comment about the one threatening to cut all your heads off is laughable. I'd like to see these RenActors take on the real pirates in Malaysia these days. Our group doesn't come close to towing the line in terms of historical perfection. But we can outpirate and outlast most we come across. We can entertain gutter rats and heads of state with the best of them, even if our threads are a stitch or two off. And we can hold our own with our fellow pirates, re-enactors or weekenders. So my advice, ignore those who pass judgment - they're just jealous that they can't be pirates or wenches. And I still must wonder what would possess a woman to come to a Ren event as a nun instead of a wench. What could ever, ever be the fun of that? -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosalinda Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I know of only one real Pirate. Reenactment is just that. Therefore, I see no cause to get terribly uptight about wardrobe, weapons, accessories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 No matter how accurate you think you are with clothing, it just isn't so. Is the wool for your pants spun from a spinning wheel? Is the leather for your shoes two hundred years old and cobbled by a freehand shoemaker? Is anything at all truly from the period or reproductions of one nature or another to LOOK like the real articles? Enough of my tirade right? LOLOL Well I know that I like being around people who want to have fun for the sake of fun itself, besides, as any good pirate knows.. Articles are more or less guidelines *S* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baptiste Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Well I got 33 replies out of you lubbers! Pretty fine for my first posting! P.S. The wool from my bonnet was spun by hand and knitted by a friend. THe sheeps name was Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I must wholeheartedly agree with several postings. First, no one can be a true pirate without the torture, rape and other unpleasantries that dot the headlines every day, committed by every day commoners. Reenactment is the recreation of a spirit of a time and place... no one can truly go back and live in a different time - we're all jaded by everything we've experienced in life. So what if you use a lighter - pirates in this time do. And do the Ren Nazis follow through an light up at home with a rock and a stick? Where does reenactment truly begin and end. There will also be those who tightly control their environment as they can't be creative and loose in their own lives, let alone their character's life. And there are those of us who like to take a little lattitude with the attitude which is fine too. Not much different from politics or religion. There are those who go by the book and those who write their own passages. As a friend once said, there are gamblers, whores and settlers in life. And most people choose to be a settler. Hats off to those who want to maintain a connection to the past through attention to detail and pants off to those in the world who have the guts to take a little license, add their own twists to their appearances and enjoy life as it comes to them. More the merrier and viva la difference! -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 :) Well stated, Hurricane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosalinda Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Whoaaaaa! Baptiste, Careful now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Might just be time for you to be moving on Ed, you have your groupies, go please them and leave these rather pleasant people alone Angus??? you there, Mate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Maudlin McCrumb Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 That wasn't very gentlemanly, baptiste... "You have a woman's skin, m'lord! I'll wager that hides never been rubbed with salt and flayed off to make stockin's for a pirates best cabin boy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 33? I've got over 5,000 on the back page..keep tryin, mate.. ....past ye'r bedtime,eh, wot?...mummy tuck the little pirate in?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosalinda Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Baptiste, You can sew all the button holes you want, and it will NEVER make you anything more than a seamstress. You can wear a mask if you wish...that makes you NOTHING more than a coward. You told me you were a mariner, but wouldn't admit to being a Pirate. So, I wonder, why you are so concerned with authenticity? Is it because you LACK that which would truly make you what you so deeply desire to be? Is it merely an extention of your mask, to hide more facts than it reveals? A true Pirate has NOTHING to prove to ANYONE. It's an element that lives in the blood, in the heart, and in the soul. Landlocked though I may be, I know the real thing when I see it. And it has nothing to do with wool, or weaving, or methods, or reenactment authenticity. It just is, and it needs no judgement or approval from anyone to be so. It follows no rules or guidelines or standards. And all of the namedropping in the world will not make it any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Maudlin McCrumb Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Beautifully said Rosalinda "You have a woman's skin, m'lord! I'll wager that hides never been rubbed with salt and flayed off to make stockin's for a pirates best cabin boy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I once was participating at an event and was one of the swordfighters. A ren nazi atrted to comment on how I was using the wrong technique and my armor was wrong and so on and so on, etc. So I told him very simply to pick up a sword and show me what was right. I then proceded to beat the pants off his arse. You were doing fine at first Baptiste, then you had to go and get cocky and smart arsed. If you were home spun and pure wool, then you are not a true re-enactor. You are a fool. Only a fool in these modern time would do RE-ENACTING in summer heat in clothing that would make you pass out. If you are working at Williamsburg or teaching history, then thats another story. If you would like to try your authentic importance out here Baptiste, then I say you are most welcome. Come armed though, as I plan to teach you some history , close up and personal. I have lost plenty of sword fights in my day, but, I've never been beaten Baptiste. Bring your cutlass, rapier, broadsword, pike , whatever you like. I'll be ready. By the way, this is meant as a friendly challenge, because of what I feel is you getting just a little to smart with me mates here. As they would in history Baptiste, that is to say what is authentic for pirates, is not what I am doing. A true, historically acurate pirate, would walk up, spit in your eye and slice you in half. But, if you accept my challenge and face me, who knows, mabye. By the way, does anyone want to be my second........... The Capt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Maudlin McCrumb Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Aye, Captain Flint.. I volunteer. I am pretty decent with a sword, and just got a new cutlass that needs some breaking in... "You have a woman's skin, m'lord! I'll wager that hides never been rubbed with salt and flayed off to make stockin's for a pirates best cabin boy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Thank you Mad Maudlin.. keep your blade in it's scabbard. I've never backed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 My swordsmanship leaves much to be desired, but I wing a wicked bucket of water.... -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Hey!!!! Wait a minute!!! Talking about taking one for the team! All I heard when that bucket of water hit my head was something from the crowd watchig and that was............ OH HELL NO!!!!! Thats exactly what I thought for the next several hours as the water drained from my ear! Don't mess with a woman and her bucket I says now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatSpell Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Besides...being a Pyrate is not sayin' that ye arrrr...It's more of a Feeling...You just know yer one at heart!!! And by th' way I agree with ye that ye shouldn't mess with the likes of a Female "Bucket-Neer!"...ar ar ar ....Way to go girl! (Pun Intended) Deadly Drucilla Disclaimer: That Sayin' "Bucket-Neer" was thanks to Cacklin' Bloody Bill Holtz! (Me Mate!) Pause My Friend, As You Pass By. -As You Are, So Once Was I. -As I Am, So Shall You Be. -Prepare You Then, To Follow Me. (written on a gravestone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baptiste Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Well my rigging is cut, I am demasted, the rudder is shot away and your broadside has breached my hull Beneath the water line! It is clear that I crossed a line and for that I apologize! It was my attempt to engage in lively conversation. Instead I have hurt people's feelings and brought up bad memories. For all this I apologize. In my own defense, I said I hand sew my button holes because I do not know how to use a sewing machine. My bonnet is spun from the wool of Gary the ram (a friends 4H project). Again, I apologize! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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