Davy Jones and Fiddler's Green and Sea Myths

[lwhitehead]

Hi I need help Sea Myths and Heaven and Hell, Death and Life.  Davy Jones and Fiddler's Green, Now the problem with Davy Jones if I use him for my Death then I might get sued by Disney but they got there version mixed up with the Flying Dutchman

 

LW

[Fox]

The character of Davy Jones as seen in the PotC franchise is basically an invention of Disney with a 'traditional' name tacked on, but Disney can't own the copyright on the name, so if you use their character you might run into trouble but it you create your own personification of Jones you should be ok.

However, to my knowledge, Davy Jones, the Flying Dutchman, and Fiddlers' Green are all later than the GAoP in origin. The only post-mortem superstitions which seem prevalent amongst GAoP era pirates are essentially Christian notions of Heaven and Hell.

[lwhitehead]

But if I use Davy Jones as my God of Death and use a Coffin Ship to carry the gathered dead aboard to underworld along the Dead Sea to River Styx in, then the Fiddler would be the overlord of Green like Heaven.

My version of Davy Jones isn't a squid-man but more like a Skeleton dressed as Sea Captain burdened to gather the Dead,

 

LW

[Jib]

Ironically I think Disney places the POTC series in the 1740's... which is odd.

[lwhitehead]

Well my Version of Davy Jones is my Sea going Reaper Captain of his Coffin Ship much like Disney version but I know they muddled the Flying Dutchman myth,

 

LW

[Jib]

And alas Pyracy Pub heads off to Fiddlers Green...

[lwhitehead]

Still Online,

 

 

LW

[Coastie04]

Yet she's being towed to the breaker's yard...

[lwhitehead]

Still online and working,

 

 

LW

[Coastie04]

Yep, I check it every so often when I'm actually at my computer.  I hope that it's because the information is somehow being compiled and saved, but most likely just waiting for the licenses (or whatever contract term is used for a webpage) to expire.

[Mission]

The more likely explanation is that Stynky is too lazy to take it down. (Trust me, I know Stynky...) Although I've no doubt that when the web page contract expires as Coastie mentioned, it will suddenly disappear. This has the added benefit of insuring that Stynky doesn't actually have to do anything to remove it.

I have saved a lot of the files that interested me, although they're in separate Word files and so are a PITA to actually try and sift through unless you know what you're looking for. I mostly saved them to refer to stuff that I can use in writing future Surgeon's Journal articles.

[RoyalJames]

We are pretty off-topic here, but I guess we’re not bound the articles anymore…

There are tools to automatically download what you are interested in instead of doing it by hand. It still takes some time to do it, but it’s the computer working anyway. I have some parts already stored. PM me if you want a copy.

(But, even better would be if a super-user could make a copy of everything, that other users could download!)

More off-topic, this is a nice site for tracking pirates and others www.historylogbook.org

 

 

[lwhitehead]

Let's get back On Topic Fiddler's Green and Davy Jones Locker how can I protray Heaven and Hell for Pirates?,

 

 

LW

[Coastie04]

If you're looking at heaven/hell, often when I've seen the superstitions, Fiddler's Green is more of a paradise/heaven than Davy Jones' Locker.  Some myths state that Davy Jones' Locker is where sailors go if they die at sea, while Fiddler's Green is where they go if they die on land.  I generally don't hear of Davy Jones' Locker being necessarily bad, but it isn't the utopia and 'holiday' that Fiddler's Green is made out to be.  So if you want to use them as heaven/hell, it would be easier to have FG = Heaven and DJL = Hell.  At least that's my two cents worth.

[lwhitehead]

Yes but what about a Sea going Grim Ripper like Character gathering the Dead in a Coffinship,

 

 

LW

[Fox]

If you want to go with a historically accurate version then you basically need to be looking at 18th century Christian beliefs about death and the afterlife.

[lwhitehead]

18th Century Christian Beliefs were do I find sources and Books on afterlife as well.

 

 

LW

[Mission]

As Foxe already explained, when you try and hunt them down, you'll find that many of the sea superstitions can only be traced back to the mid/late 18th century. I ran into that when trying to run down superstitions that we think were prevalent then when I was writing my article Dealing With the Deceased a few years back. I found the sea superstitions weren't much different than the landsmen's superstitions and a lot of the more "sea-based" myths came later. As I quoted in my article,

"Writing several decades after the golden age of piracy about a shipwreck that took place in 1739, John Byron explained,

That common people in general are addicted to superstitious conceits, is an observation founded on experience; and the reason is evident: but I cannot allow that common seamen are more so than others of the lower class. In the most enlightened ages of antiquity, we find it to have been the popular opinion, that the spirits of the dead were not at rest till their bodies were interred; and that they did not cease to haunt and trouble those who had neglected this duty to the departed. This is still believed by the vulgar, in most countries"

[Mission]

This may interest you.

“[Roberts, philosophy] [Thomas] Sutton used to be very prophane; he happening to be in the same Irons with another Prisoner, who was more serious than ordinary, and read and pray’d often, as became his Condition; this Man, Sutton used to swear at, and ask him, what he proposed by so much Noise and Devotion? Heaven, says the other, I hope. Heaven, you Fool, says Sutton, did you ever hear of any Pyrates going thither? Give me H———ll, it’s a merrier Place: I’ll give Roberts a Salute of 13 Guns at Entrance. And when he found such ludicrous Expressions had no Effect on him, he made a formal Complaint, and requested that the Officer would either remove this Man, or take his Prayer-Book away, as a common Disturber.” (Daniel Defoe  (Captain Charles Johnson), A General History of the Pyrates, Manuel Schonhorn, ed., 1999, p. 246)

(There's no indication about what happened after that.)

[Bright]

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/folklore-and-the-sea-the-american-maritime-library-vol-6_horace-beck/378895/?mkwid=sckPaGqkw|dc&pcrid=70112871912&pkw=&pmt=&plc=&gclid=CPX7k5KGvNMCFUc2gQodnvkCAw#isbn=0785811192&idiq=6123949

Fisherman, sailors, merchantmen, navies, shipwrights, pirates and smugglers - all earned their livlihood from the seas and the shores surrounding them, some honestly, some with cruel and cunning. Here are the stories, the tales, and legends which form the lore and fables of these men and women. The rugged fishermen of Newfoundland and the Canadian Maritime Provinces; the privateers and merchantmen of Maine, Massachusetts and the Chesapeake; the mariners of the British West Indies; the seafarers of the harsh and stormy coasts of Ireland and Scotland - all helped shape myriad legends and tales of the deep. Herein you will discover beliefs and superstitions about boatbuilding, weather, creatures of the deep, and the ghosts and demons that have, in all ages, risen from the sea to terrify and enchant men. FOLKLORE AND THE SEA unravels the sources of these folktales, plumbs their meanings, and helps preserve the customs, beliefs and traditions of hundreds of years of seafaring.

Edited April 24 by Bright