Jump to content


Photo

NatGeo Warrior Graveyard series


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Dirigoboy

Dirigoboy

    Bilge Rat

  • Member
  • 17 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:52 AM

This 2011 segment had probably been discussed before, yet doing a search I hadn't found it, so I thought I'd set it down here if anyone were interested. This morning over breakfast, I happened to catch the NatGeo, Warrior Graveyard segment, "Navy of the Damned." Had anyone else seen it? Granted, it reported out on the British Navy during the 18th/19th century, but it was very well done, and I think that many of the daily struggles of the British Naval sailor transferred to that of the pirates as well.
If you'd not seen it, and find yourself interested, I'm hoping this link works; www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHczkvtDwY

#2 Mission

Mission

    International Sturgeon of Mystery

  • Admin
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:09 AM

Now it works. You have to use the little chain icon at the top of the editing box to create a link now. (You used to be able to just pop links in and the forum would automatically convert them, but that doesn't seem to work with this latest version of IP.Board.)
Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"
John: "I don't know."
Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."


Posted Image

#3 Swashbuckler 1700

Swashbuckler 1700

    Notorious Pyrate

  • Member
  • 977 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:42 AM

Now it works. You have to use the little chain icon at the top of the editing box to create a link now. (You used to be able to just pop links in and the forum would automatically convert them, but that doesn't seem to work with this latest version of IP.Board.)


Sorry but I must say that often pirate/weapon tv documents say that when shot hits to ship there were "deadly" wood splinters flying everewhere. It is true but actually they were not really deadly since they did not fly straight or with a high velocity . So they rotated around and the force when it hits to you is not deadly but some cases the wound may require a patch. Mythbusters have tesed it with cannons and this is the result. But you know more about surgery and all so I am not the best person to peak about this.

Sorry for oftopic but Documentary was good.

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700, 24 March 2012 - 06:44 AM.

"I have not yet Begun To Fight!"
John Paul Jones


Posted Image

My pirate art gallery http://pyracy.com/in...tic-pirate-art/

#4 Fox

Fox

    Verbally Abused

  • Moderator
  • 2,456 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:13 AM

Unfortunately, Mythbusters is no better than any other documentary and in this case 'proved' something completely wrong.

The mythbusters experiment was seriously flawed in that the "ship" they used was so light that it wobbled when hit bit a cannon ball, dissipating the force of the impact. Several period sources (including one of Nelson's surgeons IIRC) mention the deadly effect of splinters flying through the crowded area below decks, so it was never actually a myth worth "busting".

The splinters don't need to fly straight, if they fly in any direction they'll hit something or someone.

Foxe

"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707


ETFox.co.uk


#5 Swashbuckler 1700

Swashbuckler 1700

    Notorious Pyrate

  • Member
  • 977 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:15 AM

Unfortunately, Mythbusters is no better than any other documentary and in this case 'proved' something completely wrong.

The mythbusters experiment was seriously flawed in that the "ship" they used was so light that it wobbled when hit bit a cannon ball, dissipating the force of the impact. Several period sources (including one of Nelson's surgeons IIRC) mention the deadly effect of splinters flying through the crowded area below decks, so it was never actually a myth worth "busting".

The splinters don't need to fly straight, if they fly in any direction they'll hit something or someone.


Well they were wrong.... not the only time. I told that I am not best person to talk about this and that was the case :P . Thanks for
correction....

"I have not yet Begun To Fight!"
John Paul Jones


Posted Image

My pirate art gallery http://pyracy.com/in...tic-pirate-art/

#6 Mission

Mission

    International Sturgeon of Mystery

  • Admin
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:19 AM

Whoa! Pretty cool from a ship's surgeon perspective. The men appear to be about 100 years out from period, but the surgical stuff didn't change a whole lot over that time. I loved the stuff about the amputation - with many splendidly accurate details, falling, weather, the crush fracture, the lovely stuff about the scruvy including those gruesome makeup effects, the sword wound, the effect of splinters (not cannonballs) from cannonfire. (Splinters were a far greater problem for period surgeons than cannonballs were.)

However, they tend to assume that all these wounds were from battle, where they may not have been. A ship was a dangerous place to work and, other than during war, my understanding is that battles were infrequent. But you gotta' make it seem exciting for teevee. Still the surgical details jibe very well with what I've learned.

Interesting that syphilis can give the bones a worm-eaten appearance. This gives an alternate explanation to those in my recent article on amputation. I'll have to go back and revise that as their explanation makes far more sense.

I love forensic anthropology. When I was thirteen or fourteen, that was my ideal career until I found out that there were only about a dozen of them in the world at that time. (My how times change...) Thanks for the link. Well worth watching from a medicine perspective..
Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"
John: "I don't know."
Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."


Posted Image

#7 Mission

Mission

    International Sturgeon of Mystery

  • Admin
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:21 AM

The mythbusters experiment was seriously flawed in that the "ship" they used was so light that it wobbled when hit bit a cannon ball, dissipating the force of the impact. Several period sources (including one of Nelson's surgeons IIRC) mention the deadly effect of splinters flying through the crowded area below decks, so it was never actually a myth worth "busting".

The splinters don't need to fly straight, if they fly in any direction they'll hit something or someone.


Coming from the other direction, I have DOZENS of references to the dangers of splinters on a ship, so I long ago wrote Mythbusters opinion on that front off.
Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"
John: "I don't know."
Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."


Posted Image

#8 Brit.Privateer

Brit.Privateer

    First Mate

  • Member
  • 205 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:56 AM

Here is some background on this documentary:
http://bonesdontlie....-skeleton-crew/
Specifically:
"Excavations over the past years of British Royal Navy cemeteries from the mid-18th to early 19th century have unearthed the remains of numerous sailors. Detailed examination has been conducted of 340 skeletons, including 120 skeletons from Greenwich, 50 from Gosport and 170 from Plymouth."

It seems that more and more studies are being done on the remains of these British sailors. For instance, here one one on the diet of sailors based on their remains:
http://www.scienceda...t Science News)

#9 Fox

Fox

    Verbally Abused

  • Moderator
  • 2,456 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

I haven't seen it for years, but my memory of the Mythbusters pirate show was that not one of the things they did actually had any bearing on real history. If I'd seen the show in advance I'd have asked them to take my name off the credits... B)

Foxe

"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707


ETFox.co.uk


#10 Swashbuckler 1700

Swashbuckler 1700

    Notorious Pyrate

  • Member
  • 977 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

I haven't seen it for years, but my memory of the Mythbusters pirate show was that not one of the things they did actually had any bearing on real history. If I'd seen the show in advance I'd have asked them to take my name off the credits... B)


It is not big shame...

"I have not yet Begun To Fight!"
John Paul Jones


Posted Image

My pirate art gallery http://pyracy.com/in...tic-pirate-art/

#11 Dirigoboy

Dirigoboy

    Bilge Rat

  • Member
  • 17 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:01 AM

Egad. I'm not sure if this means I can play marbles with this group or not. Tip of the tricorn to any who found it of use at any road. As an aside, like an ass, I failed to write down local lore by a ships catamaran captain while I was upon his vessel, when I was in Bloody Bay, Negril, Jamaica this past December. If I can get myself back to the area in the next year or so, a main focus will be Port Royal.

#12 Fox

Fox

    Verbally Abused

  • Moderator
  • 2,456 posts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:41 AM

Welcome, and bring your marbles.

Foxe

"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707


ETFox.co.uk


#13 Mission

Mission

    International Sturgeon of Mystery

  • Admin
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:34 AM

It seems that more and more studies are being done on the remains of these British sailors. For instance, here one one on the diet of sailors based on their remains:
http://www.scienceda...Science+News%29

Interesting, but not very surprising.

"Feeding so many men was a huge logistical challenge requiring strictly controlled diets including flour, oatmeal, suet, cheese, dried pork, beer, salted cod and ships biscuits when at sea." That agrees pretty much exactly with what we've found here on the pub from reading period accounts.

As the article later says, "The results revealed that the naval diet was virtually unchanged in 200 years." Which is also not very surprising to me given what I've read. "Our findings demonstrate the benefits of using forensic methods to complement documentary records." Uh huh. As much as I love forensic anthropology, I can't help but wonder if they couldn't have found a more productive way to spend the money used for this study.
Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"
John: "I don't know."
Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."


Posted Image

#14 Swashbuckler 1700

Swashbuckler 1700

    Notorious Pyrate

  • Member
  • 977 posts

Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:37 AM


It seems that more and more studies are being done on the remains of these British sailors. For instance, here one one on the diet of sailors based on their remains:
http://www.scienceda...Science+News%29

Interesting, but not very surprising.

"Feeding so many men was a huge logistical challenge requiring strictly controlled diets including flour, oatmeal, suet, cheese, dried pork, beer, salted cod and ships biscuits when at sea." That agrees pretty much exactly with what we've found here on the pub from reading period accounts.

As the article later says, "The results revealed that the naval diet was virtually unchanged in 200 years." Which is also not very surprising to me given what I've read. "Our findings demonstrate the benefits of using forensic methods to complement documentary records." Uh huh. As much as I love forensic anthropology, I can't help but wonder if they couldn't have found a more productive way to spend the money used for this study.


Between 1500-1830 sea life was pretty much same with diseases and all....

"I have not yet Begun To Fight!"
John Paul Jones


Posted Image

My pirate art gallery http://pyracy.com/in...tic-pirate-art/

#15 Mission

Mission

    International Sturgeon of Mystery

  • Admin
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:38 AM


"Feeding so many men was a huge logistical challenge requiring strictly controlled diets including flour, oatmeal, suet, cheese, dried pork, beer, salted cod and ships biscuits when at sea." That agrees pretty much exactly with what we've found here on the pub from reading period accounts.

As the article later says, "The results revealed that the naval diet was virtually unchanged in 200 years." Which is also not very surprising to me given what I've read. "Our findings demonstrate the benefits of using forensic methods to complement documentary records." Uh huh. As much as I love forensic anthropology, I can't help but wonder if they couldn't have found a more productive way to spend the money used for this study.


Between 1500-1830 sea life was pretty much same with diseases and all....

Huh? What does that have to do with the article or my comments on it?
Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"
John: "I don't know."
Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."


Posted Image

#16 Swashbuckler 1700

Swashbuckler 1700

    Notorious Pyrate

  • Member
  • 977 posts

Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:42 AM



"Feeding so many men was a huge logistical challenge requiring strictly controlled diets including flour, oatmeal, suet, cheese, dried pork, beer, salted cod and ships biscuits when at sea." That agrees pretty much exactly with what we've found here on the pub from reading period accounts.

As the article later says, "The results revealed that the naval diet was virtually unchanged in 200 years." Which is also not very surprising to me given what I've read. "Our findings demonstrate the benefits of using forensic methods to complement documentary records." Uh huh. As much as I love forensic anthropology, I can't help but wonder if they couldn't have found a more productive way to spend the money used for this study.


Between 1500-1830 sea life was pretty much same with diseases and all....

Huh? What does that have to do with the article or my comments on it?


Well you were talking of that that sailor's diet was same for a long time and so was many other things....

"I have not yet Begun To Fight!"
John Paul Jones


Posted Image

My pirate art gallery http://pyracy.com/in...tic-pirate-art/

#17 Swashbuckler 1700

Swashbuckler 1700

    Notorious Pyrate

  • Member
  • 977 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:49 AM

There was nice article about those same bone finds in local history magazine. ^_^

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700, 25 May 2012 - 03:49 AM.

"I have not yet Begun To Fight!"
John Paul Jones


Posted Image

My pirate art gallery http://pyracy.com/in...tic-pirate-art/

#18 Brit.Privateer

Brit.Privateer

    First Mate

  • Member
  • 205 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

I know this was posted a while back, but I wanted to see this documentary again - and it is HARD to find. I could only find one place to view it: http://veehd.com/vid...-the-Damned-avi

One thing though, DO NOT INSTALL THE VAUDIX PLUGIN, ITS A VIRUS. TO GET AROUND INSTALLING THAT PLUGIN, JUST FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS PAGE (You'll need Firefox or Chrome as your internet browser to do this):

(sorry for the youtube page popping up in the post, I don't know how to turn that off).

 

Still a good documentary - though it seems the good ones are always the hardest to get these days.  And now a quick point about retaining documentaries:

 

View and obtain good documentaries while you can. Documentaries probably suffer the most in terms of not being saved for DVD or made available for download by the original companies that made them (since the returns are often not profitable enough, and legal problems for obtaining permission to show images and footage of people/things not agreed to for a home video release).  Because of the changes in the way we consume media, many documentaries will be lost over time (proportionally more when compared to theatrical entertainment movies).  Granted, updates in information cause some documentaries to fall into disuse - but others don't since it's hard to top them (and sometimes new documentaries get more things wrong than the older ones).  So when you see a documentary online or on TV, note it, watch it, and obtain it for future use and viewing since it may not be able to see it ever again.  This is becoming truer for documentaries from National Geographic and the Smithsonian Channel. 


Edited by Brit.Privateer, 07 July 2013 - 04:28 PM.


#19 Mission

Mission

    International Sturgeon of Mystery

  • Admin
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:15 AM

Funny, I was just looking for this the other day and was disappointed  to find that the YouTube video had been taken down. (Oh, those pesky copyrights. ;) ) It's one of the few teevee programs I've seen that got most of the facts right based on what I've read. A lot of  'history' programs seem to be more of  a mixed bag of history, theory and dodgy re-imagining.


Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"
John: "I don't know."
Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."


Posted Image