Bos'n Cross Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Well, coming across the above (dutch 17th century i believe.....no idea what is says...) image reminded me that i am in need of a sailmakers bench....and tools that accompany it.......does anyone have anything on sail bench ? i can find all the 19th century things in the world.....but not so much on 18th or 17th century.......... -Israel Cross- - Boatswain of the Archangel - . Colonial Seaport Foundation Crew of the Archangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit.Privateer Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Where did you find this image, and from what part of the seventeenth century is that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Mr.Cross - Indeed, it always seems like a sharper trowel is needed to dig up the 17th century stuff. Brit - Here's links to this and additional images from Spiegel van het Menselyk Bedryf aka... The Book of Trades by Jan and Caspar Luyken... http://en.wikipedia....of_Trades%22%29 or... http://www.geneaknow...ken/luyken.html Edited October 26, 2011 by landlubbersanonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos'n Cross Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 thanks for linking it, there are some great prints in the set! -Israel Cross- - Boatswain of the Archangel - . Colonial Seaport Foundation Crew of the Archangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) An old Dutch Delft plate from the period showing work on a sail. Not much detail of the bench. The hunt continues. Edited November 19, 2011 by landlubbersanonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 actually lubber, it gives us a lot to work with. this is a good find! looking at the legs, they are pegged and splayed out instead of narrow boards. this is typical of a loft bench rather than one found afloat. if the right hand legs are set the same distance as the left, the end of the bench is just out of view. looking at the bench v/s bum ratio, our sailmaker takes up about 1/3 of the bench. so basing the bum on an 18 to 24 inch beam the bench would be 4 1/2 to 6 feet long- about as short as you would want it to be. while there is no cow pen to hold his tools, there is an interesting piece there. obviously the knife, the small round blob seems to be a pin cusion. i have no idea about the thing falling off the corner of the bench. now look at the front of the bench and material. lo and behold we have a taylors third hand! ti's a small clamp used to hold the material onto the bench to keep the material from moving much like a modern sailmakers hook. the shelves on the wall hold fids or fit blades of some sort but i have no idea about the rolls on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 actually lubber, it gives us a lot to work with. this is a good find! looking at the legs, they are pegged and splayed out instead of narrow boards. ... Dutch - It's encouraging to know this is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Another Dutch artifact from the same period. (Note the date at the base of columns.) This was a small relief carving from a door. Interestingly, the rolled stuff appears above on the right as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 i would have to guess it was rolls of fabric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 i would have to guess it was rolls of fabric. We're inclined to agree as factory rolled toilet paper had yet to be invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Good finds guys :) Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 which leads us right into a discussion I had with someone last week. . . . . how was fabric shipped to the colonies? Was it on spindles or folded or some other way? It seems a bit impractical to make it on a roll, undo it, fold it, then ship......... any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) this is some sort of broadsheet from 1794 showing a sailmaker at work There is also plans on making an 18th century sailmakers bench here: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qyUDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA122&dq=sailmakers%20bench&pg=PA121#v=onepage&q&f=false Edited November 21, 2011 by PoD ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Foxe & Dutch - If possible, we'd like to get back on an hourly wage. This salaried web search position isn't paying the bills. PoD - Awesome! Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisiana Jeff Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Do these benches have storage under the seat? Like a piano bench? The pic of the plate seems ( t' me untrained eye) seems to have space where the leg connects to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korisios Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Well let me see if i can translate it...: The Sail, stretched on ra and mast. Go's over see with Ship and Man: So Men do stretch do stretch your sail, of affectionate will and desire, So quids Gods Holy Spirit you to the gold coast, of all salvation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Louisiana J - So far, the only ones I've seen with lower storage have been the later, 19th & 20th century ones. Korisios - "quids"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korisios Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Sorry: guides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos'n Cross Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 oh this is like friggin candy now....so.....we have found now that the bench hook can be replaced with a clamp....and overall tool trays and slots dont seem to have been put on benches yet.......i have also found that sailmakers palms are not the same in the 17th century as the ones you see in the later 18th and 19th. if you look at my original image youll see that the palm only goes around the middle section of the hand.....doesnt go around the thumb at all....an example can be found at the chatham dockyard, off of the invincible 1758......but i cant yet find a gggooood picture...if anyone lives near by.....*cough*......as for the bundle like tubes in the image backgrounds, i am very sure are rolls of canvas with were shipped in rolls (o know #4 canvas was 25 inches wide and in rolls like that....thanks cj!).......im working on getting the info about canvas weight and all down right now, hopefully ill be able to flesh this out a bit........thank you so much landlubbersanonymous ....your plate, may have just made me a bench! -Israel Cross- - Boatswain of the Archangel - . Colonial Seaport Foundation Crew of the Archangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos'n Cross Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 here is a question for landlubber......do you have any info on that plate?.....someone more experienced than myself, has a feeling that it mmmiiiggghhhhht be a tailor.....and just wants to be sure...... -Israel Cross- - Boatswain of the Archangel - . Colonial Seaport Foundation Crew of the Archangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 The awls in the tool-shelf in the background are more suggestive of a sailmaker than a tailor to my mind Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 im going with sailmaker too. the bench is a specific tool. tailors are normaly depicted with tabletops and patterns. cross, i still have the planks for your bench and the pattern off mine. just let me know when...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 here is a question for landlubber......do you have any info on that plate?.....someone more experienced than myself, has a feeling that it mmmiiiggghhhhht be a tailor.....and just wants to be sure...... Only that the piece is part of the collection at the Rotterdam Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos'n Cross Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 thanks landlubber........and thanks for you input fox, and dutch, i know a guy who does a really good sailmakers impression, and though he also thinks it is more than likely that it is a sailmaker, he just wanted to be sure.....hes helping me out on research etc......dutch, not exactly sure how i want teh bench as for yet....im positive id like it to be rather simple though, ill speak with you on the matter this weekend...id like to have something doable in time for mta.....(i still have that sail you started)....... -Israel Cross- - Boatswain of the Archangel - . Colonial Seaport Foundation Crew of the Archangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlubbersanonymous Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Bos'n - You're welcome. Glad to be of some assistance. Ditto regard input from others too. I enjoy the challenge of the hunt. This seems to be an important item that crews should consider having for their inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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