period correct pistol

[Capt. J...]

Is a Queen Anne Pistol correct for 1668 ?

[Commodore Swab]

Queen Anne Pistol

The Queen Anne Pistol is also known as the "turn-off" pistol due to the fact that the barrel unscrews from the chamber for loading. It takes the name "Queen Anne" from the era in which it first appeared in numbers. While any gun from the 1702-1714 period could technically be called a "Queen Anne", it is the turn-off pistol that has become synonymous with that name. The ability to have the barrel unscrew allowed for a tighter fitting bullet that would develop more power and greater accuracy in use. Most period pictures of Black Beard show him with lots of pistols that seem to be of the Queen Anne style (see above picture)

An excellent book on the subject is The Queen Anne Pistol 1660-1780, by John W. Burgoyne. Sadly, I don't have this book yet, but it should be in my collection.

In the begining of the Turn-off's development, the pistols were essentially the size and style of other pistols, they just had a barrel that unscrewed. The rest of the pistol remained the same with a traditional lock, which was separate from the breech. I can not confirm a date, but at some time in the "pre" or early GAoP, turn-off pistols transitioned to a combined breech and lock, that is, it was formed as one unit (if anyone can help with this transition date, please e-mail me). So the Archetype Queen Anne's that would best exemplify GAoP use would have the breech and lock as a single unit.

Pedersoli Queen Anne Kit

This is perhaps best described with some pictures. To the left we have the Pedersoli Queen Anne kit from Dixie Gun Works. As you can see, the lock is separate from the breech and barrel. (NOTE: This is a fairly easy kit to build, and could be done in a weekend. There are many sources for this kit, so check around for the best price)

This next Queen Anne kit is from E.J.Blackley & Son. You can see that the breech and lock are made together as one unit.

Queen Anne Turn-off Pistol from Blackley & Son

While this particular pistol is a copy of Queen Anne from around the 1740s, this breech/lock combination would be the dominant style used during the GAoP.

The kit pictured is more involved than the Pedersoli version. Kind of like the difference between a snap-tite model car and one from Tamiya.

The exchange rate absolutely sucks right now, so the Blackley kit will run you $560. Figure at least on another $300 to have someone put it together for you.

For the astute, you probably notice something else different with the Pedersoli kit. The pistol is not a "turn-off" at all. The kit is a muzzleloader without an unscrewing barrel. This makes it hard to figure out what Pedersoli is really copying. It has features of the early Queen Anne (large and has a separate lock), but the barrel is fixed yet there is no provision for ramrod. If anyone has a good idea of what it is, or knows which and from when the pistol is copied, please chime in and let me know.

Queen Anne "Night Pistol" (non turn-off)

To confuse the matter even more, there were Queen Anne style pistols that did not have unscrewing barrels. Some refer to these pistols as "night pistols" and the claim is that they were intended to be loaded with shot instead of a ball (thus not needing the turn-off barrel). These must be "the rarest" of the Queen Anne style pistols as even Burgoyne's book only has one or two pictures of them. The one pictured above even has a thimble attached for the ramrod.

Taken from gentleman of fortune

http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/arms.htm

Hope this helps

Edited January 5, 2011 by vintagesailor

[Capt. J...]

Queen Anne Pistol

The Queen Anne Pistol is also known as the "turn-off" pistol due to the fact that the barrel unscrews from the chamber for loading. It takes the name "Queen Anne" from the era in which it first appeared in numbers. While any gun from the 1702-1714 period could technically be called a "Queen Anne", it is the turn-off pistol that has become synonymous with that name. The ability to have the barrel unscrew allowed for a tighter fitting bullet that would develop more power and greater accuracy in use. Most period pictures of Black Beard show him with lots of pistols that seem to be of the Queen Anne style (see above picture)

An excellent book on the subject is The Queen Anne Pistol 1660-1780, by John W. Burgoyne. Sadly, I don't have this book yet, but it should be in my collection.

In the begining of the Turn-off's development, the pistols were essentially the size and style of other pistols, they just had a barrel that unscrewed. The rest of the pistol remained the same with a traditional lock, which was separate from the breech. I can not confirm a date, but at some time in the "pre" or early GAoP, turn-off pistols transitioned to a combined breech and lock, that is, it was formed as one unit (if anyone can help with this transition date, please e-mail me). So the Archetype Queen Anne's that would best exemplify GAoP use would have the breech and lock as a single unit.

Pedersoli Queen Anne Kit

This is perhaps best described with some pictures. To the left we have the Pedersoli Queen Anne kit from Dixie Gun Works. As you can see, the lock is separate from the breech and barrel. (NOTE: This is a fairly easy kit to build, and could be done in a weekend. There are many sources for this kit, so check around for the best price)

This next Queen Anne kit is from E.J.Blackley & Son. You can see that the breech and lock are made together as one unit.

Queen Anne Turn-off Pistol from Blackley & Son

While this particular pistol is a copy of Queen Anne from around the 1740s, this breech/lock combination would be the dominant style used during the GAoP.

The kit pictured is more involved than the Pedersoli version. Kind of like the difference between a snap-tite model car and one from Tamiya.

The exchange rate absolutely sucks right now, so the Blackley kit will run you $560. Figure at least on another $300 to have someone put it together for you.

For the astute, you probably notice something else different with the Pedersoli kit. The pistol is not a "turn-off" at all. The kit is a muzzleloader without an unscrewing barrel. This makes it hard to figure out what Pedersoli is really copying. It has features of the early Queen Anne (large and has a separate lock), but the barrel is fixed yet there is no provision for ramrod. If anyone has a good idea of what it is, or knows which and from when the pistol is copied, please chime in and let me know.

Queen Anne "Night Pistol" (non turn-off)

To confuse the matter even more, there were Queen Anne style pistols that did not have unscrewing barrels. Some refer to these pistols as "night pistols" and the claim is that they were intended to be loaded with shot instead of a ball (thus not needing the turn-off barrel). These must be "the rarest" of the Queen Anne style pistols as even Burgoyne's book only has one or two pictures of them. The one pictured above even has a thimble attached for the ramrod.

Taken from gentleman of fortune

http://www.gentlemen...ne.com/arms.htm

Hope this helps

Thanks VS ....lots of good historical information........I am zeroing in on the Pedersoli Queen Anne pistol.........I have seen refs. that this style pistol goes back to 1660...i want to select a pistol that i will use at Searl's Raid in March.........dont want to be banned from participating..........Yo Ho

[Commodore Swab]

Im thinking about building a queen anne for myself as well, The only spring I haven't been able to source yet is the frizzen spring so that will have to be fabricated. As for the rest it will be a little from this lock a little from this and such. Im planning a turnoff barrel and am using this one as a pattern

I have a bronze piece for the butt but am lacking a piece for the sideplate

[hurricane]

Thanks VS ....lots of good historical information........I am zeroing in on the Pedersoli Queen Anne pistol.........I have seen refs. that this style pistol goes back to 1660...i want to select a pistol that i will use at Searl's Raid in March.........dont want to be banned from participating..........Yo Ho

Note: Searle's specifically prohibits Queen Anne's in their event. See:

http://searlesbucs.com/eventrules.html

So you may want to go with something else if you really want to do shooting.

[Capt. J...]

Thanks H.....it appears that the web sites rules and regs for weapons is down.....i contacted Jeff J. and the Captain.......

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

Thanks H.....it appears that the web sites rules and regs for weapons is down.....i contacted Jeff J. and the Captain.......

May I suggest a dog lock or even a late matchlock musket? Although a pistol works at Searkes they are a little out of place in a musket battle where the opposing force is at most times 50 a 70 yards away.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Ivan Henry aka Moose

[Grymm]

How about a 1709 8shot pistol?

[jendobyns]

That just looks so odd!

How about a 1709 8shot pistol?

[Grymm]

'S missing it's lock mech but ar y'roit 'er do look odd.

You'd have to reprime between each shot and hope that there was no 'flash over' to the other chambers when you did fire

It's in the Pitt Rivers museum in Oxford, fantastic and odd wee place tucked behind and accessed via the Oxford University Museum of Natural History.

It's arranged by typology not chronology so all the firemaking devices are one cabinet all the opium/hash pipes and betel nut tools are in another, there's all the archers braces in one yddayaddayadda

The upper gallery is the weapons and armour section with some fantasticly freaky stuff like macrame armour with puffer fish helmets there's a small but facinating firearms section......worth a visit if you're in Oxford and can tear y'self away from the multitude of bookshops and pubs =o)

Edited February 24, 2011 by Grymm

[Fox]

I can't help wondering whether the revolver apparently designed by Prince Rupert in the 1660s or 70s was of a similar design.

[jendobyns]

I will have to remember this when we eventually get over there.

'S missing it's lock mech but ar y'roit 'er do look odd.

You'd have to reprime between each shot and hope that there was no 'flash over' to the other chambers when you did fire

It's in the Pitt Rivers museum in Oxford, fantastic and odd wee place tucked behind and accessed via the Oxford University Museum of Natural History.

It's arranged by typology not chronology so all the firemaking devices are one cabinet all the opium/hash pipes and betel nut tools are in another, there's all the archers braces in one yddayaddayadda

The upper gallery is the weapons and armour section with some fantasticly freaky stuff like macrame armour with puffer fish helmets there's a small but facinating firearms section......worth a visit if you're in Oxford and can tear y'self away from the multitude of bookshops and pubs =o)

[MarkG]

'S missing it's lock mech but ar y'roit 'er do look odd.

You'd have to reprime between each shot and hope that there was no 'flash over' to the other chambers when you did fire

It's in the Pitt Rivers museum in Oxford, fantastic and odd wee place tucked behind and accessed via the Oxford University Museum of Natural History.

It's arranged by typology not chronology so all the firemaking devices are one cabinet all the opium/hash pipes and betel nut tools are in another, there's all the archers braces in one yddayaddayadda

The upper gallery is the weapons and armour section with some fantasticly freaky stuff like macrame armour with puffer fish helmets there's a small but facinating firearms section......worth a visit if you're in Oxford and can tear y'self away from the multitude of bookshops and pubs =o)

Those indentations looks like priming pans. There is no sign of where the frizzen went. The one pictured with it is built differently with a frame above the cylinder to mount the frizzen.

The most common multi-shot guns at the time were over and under pieces. There were usually two locks and barrels joined together. After you fired the first one you would turn the pistol over, bringing up the second lock.

There is a battle axe/gun in the Tower of London that is the strangest multi-shot piece I ever heard of. It has a wheel-lock that fires a pistol through the handle. When this is fired it lights a slow match. You then mount the match in a matchlock which fires out of the rear end of the axe head (the pick end). The blade of the axe has hinges on the side and you can open it to reveal four more barrels. You fire each of these by hand using the match. There is no way that you could ever hit anything with the pistols and it was too big and heavy to use as an axe.

The whole thing is made from silver and highly engraved. I'm sure that some smith told a rich wife, "It's the ultimate weapon. You get six shots then you can use it like an axe."

[Grymm]

I can't help wondering whether the revolver apparently designed by Prince Rupert in the 1660s or 70s was of a similar design.

Possible, the pistol was originally fitted with a snaphaunce lock, guns using that lock start around 1550 and mostly die out by the early 1700s so Woopert wood've had access.

I've see an all iron axe matchlock in t'Doges Palace museum dated to the mid 17thC and Tower Armouries have some of Henry VIII's bang toys like a 3 barrelled gun/gurt big f*%k off spikey mace combo

[Capt Thighbiter]

I can vouch for adjacent barrels setting others off. My double barrel pistol ( Middlesex) does that all the time, to the point where I don't prime the second barrel until the first is fired off. Oddly my double barrel flinter flowling piece never does it.

That QA on the top looks right good to me!

[Dread Pyrate Greyhound]

I'm pretty sure the pistols of the 1600s were doglock pistols NOT Queen Anne, and Jeff MacKay sells one on his website.

[bo'sun Carl]

I can vouch for adjacent barrels setting others off. My double barrel pistol ( Middlesex) does that all the time, to the point where I don't prime the second barrel until the first is fired off. Oddly my double barrel flinter flowling piece never does it.

That QA on the top looks right good to me!

Does the off side hammer fall or is it actualy being set off flash from the other pan? If the hammer is falling it might be that you have a sear bar that is a little long and being tripped by the trigger(I had double twelve gauge that did that). Just being nosey!!!!

[MarkG]

I'm pretty sure the pistols of the 1600s were doglock pistols NOT Queen Anne, and Jeff MacKay sells one on his website.

A doglock is a type of lock. There were multiple types in use in the 17th century including doglocks, snaphaunse, miquelet, wheellocks, English locks, and French locks (what we think of as a flintlock). These locks were found on a variety of styles of pistol and musket. The doglock pistol you mentioned is specifically a cavalry pistol and would be carried in pairs in saddle holsters.

The Queen Anne is a style of pistol with a short stock and a screw on barrel. This style developed after 1700 which is why it is not appropriate for a 1660s event.

If you move up to the full musket then you get even more styles of locks. Matchlocks were still around and various snaplocks. Check out the Rifle Shop's selection of locks. Just be warned that they can take a year to process an order.

[Commodore Swab]

A year hah, Im waiting still and I ordered in Sept of 2009

[Dread Pyrate Greyhound]

A year hah, Im waiting still and I ordered in Sept of 2009

That bites.

[MarkG]

A year hah, Im waiting still and I ordered in Sept of 2009

I have three pieces from them. I got the first (Swedish snaplock) in the mid-1990s and it took about two months from order to delivery. I forget how long the second one took (caliver). It was a long time and it just showed up one day with no notice.

I got really lucky with the third one. A friend had already bought and assembled one of their snaphaunces then realized that he was never going to do anything with it. Another friend had bought a fishtail stock blank that he had sat too long. I bought a barrel to go with them and had a working musket within just a few weeks.

[Commodore Swab]

Thats the story of Shay's musket, we called them then built the musket around what they had in stock.

[PoD]

A year hah, Im waiting still and I ordered in Sept of 2009

Are they still going as their website seems to have been down for a good many months now?

[Commodore Swab]

I haven't been able to get thru on their phones for quite a while. I stopped trying a couple weeks ago, I will renew strength next week.

[PoD]

Im thinking about building a queen anne for myself as well, The only spring I haven't been able to source yet is the frizzen spring so that will have to be fabricated.

have you tried here?

http://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Pistol_Kits.html

I have 2 of their queen anne kits and i think they sell the bits incase you mess up any of the parts supplied with the kits. Hopefully they have got their act together though as they went a bit off the rails last year and took ages getting things shipped.