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Guatemala/Caribbean dress?


Korisios

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Let me be honnest with you guys, I am not an Pirate reenactor.

But i do have a relationship with Guatemala and therefore a bit with the Caribbean eara.

Visiting Guatemala I begin to know a lot of stores and people wo produce and sell traditional Guatemalan dress.

From very sheep modern stuff up to handmade traditional and a bit more expencive clothing.

Besides this I started to wander about how many of these traditional mayan dress would have been mixed with the europian sailors clothing durring the ages?

And would it maybe an idea to pursase some of these clothing and sell it back here in Europe to pirates reenactors??

Is there anyone out here who might have a clue??

what mayan traditional dress lookes like?

Just google guatemala dress and jou'l find out!

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Ahoy, Korisios...

I'm not sure about the Guatemalan and Caribbean styles during the Golden Age of Piracy, however I know that Mayan styles wouldn't have been worn as th' Mayan civilization has fallen before the Conquistadors had set foot upon the Yucatan. Post Mayan styles that were a mixture of Mexicana and Spanish influence were possible, but your basic traditional Mayan were not. Possible some slave of a Spaniard wore the head wrap, a skirt/kilt/pants of old Maya/Aztec/Toltec descent but doubtful the shoes and other traditional styles would have been worn by a pirate or buccaneer. Most of the Mexicana tribes had been converted by the Spaniards by the time of the Golden Age.

This is worth some research since the Spaniards did use these tribal descendents as slaves and workers from working on plantations and mines to transport of the gold shipments on land. How many successfully escaped and became pirates... is unknown.

~Lady B

Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!"

"I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed."

The one, the only,... the infamous!

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Indeed I am allready talking about the Maya Spanisch mixture...

also indeed was I thinking about these pants with stripes, and/or embroidery.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l-0YBWgNgFM/Sz_3tP8WIuI/AAAAAAAAzeg/yDitdaZsNck/s400/traje2

and embroiderd bandana's / head wrap's...

oh and woolen feltlike jacket's mostly black or red with decorations made out of cords also most likely more spanisch...

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This is pure speculation on my part, but I think you could safely say that anything is possible. Most sailors and colonists would have probably stuck with a more traditional European style initially because people are people. As time went on, I would think you might see more homogenization of styles (on both sides) but some would no doubt have gone native right. Again, people are people and some personalities take to the local style right off.

This is how tattooing often seems to be viewed since it appears to have been largely (but not entirely) borrowed from indigenous people. If someone is willing to ink their body because they thought it looked good, I would imagine many others might adopt a scarf or fabric from a local culture if it appealed to them. The practice of adopting parrots and monkeys as mascots also suggests a similar line of thought to me.(Still the concept of colonization and the structures they built suggest to me that many would be spending more of the time attempting to re-create their home culture rather than adopting the local culture.)

Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"

John: "I don't know."

Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."

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I think it would be very nice to see a pirate in such traditional, ethnic garb. I am not familiar with the historical styles of that area, but if indeed the styles that you have enquired about were worn in the early 1700's, I think it would be plausible. I would welcome such a pirate aboard my ship as a free brother of the sea. ;)

"Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?"

---Captain William Kidd---

(1945)

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Cool! Keep it comming! It's still a long time before my humble ship (read jumbo 747) take's sale to the caribbean again...

Then again how much would people be willing to pay?? Would they go fore a authentic made pease (Naturaly collored)wich might cost a bit more or rather have something sheap??

In other words how vain are you pirates???biggrin.gif

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Buying was not their first choice for getting clothes. (Why spend money on fabric when you could spend it on alcohol and women?) Pirates were likely to steal the choicest clothes from the prizes they took and wear them willy nilly. I don't have the quotes handy, but it seems to me that one set of articles for a pirate or privateer gives the best suit of clothes to the man who first spotted a prize.

It seems to me that it was in The Memoirs of Pére Labat 1693-1705 (translated and edited by John Eaden) where he describes how silly a group of pirates look strutting around an island in mismatched finery that they filched from the crew of a wrecked ship.

Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"

John: "I don't know."

Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."

Mission_banner5.JPG

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First off.....I've never seen pictures of sailors in indigenous clothing.....would love for someone to show me some, but I haven't seen any to date....

Second....two words for finding out what the Indios wore.....Casta Paintings....They wore clothing distinctly different from even the poorest Spaniards.....

Third....since it's not documented (yet), and we're in the middle of a Depression.....this reenactor isn't willing to pay much.....

Cheers,

Adam C.

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Relying on portraits as your only proof could be very misleading. Mooseworth and I were just talking at Searle's this past weekend about how pictures would have mostly been showed people in their best clothing given the time and effort it took to create them.

Not having as much interest in clothing as I do in medicine, I can't recall everything I've read about it, but I do know Wafer gives a description of himself going in for native dress in his book. So we can safely say it did happen. Come to think of it, I believe we also read that sailors traded their own clothing for trinkets and possibly clothing with the natives in...I believe it was Woodes Rogers' book? (I don't recall it verbatim, but that's the gist of what I remember.) They ended up having the sailmakers create warmer clothing for the sailors out of the sails because the sailors hadn't thought about how cold it would be rounding the cape. (Which I thought was funny - and that's why I remember it.)

Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?"

John: "I don't know."

Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."

Mission_banner5.JPG

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While this does not address 'Mayan' specifically it does address the 'line up of pirates' by nationality, where they came from, who they where before becoming 'pirates', and thus, what they were likely to wear:

"Pirates came from all nationalities, circumstances, and backgrounds.

From trial records and ship's logs, it is interesting to note that the majority of pirates during the Golden Age of Piracy were Welsh. After that - in descending order - were the Irish, English, and then the Scots. A smattering of German, Italian, Greek, and Dutch pirates also sailed. The breakdown continues to be a social testament of the troubles and dissatisfactions of nations.

French and Spanish pirates counted an almost equal number (*however not noted 'where' the stood in the above line up*). Also rare, but not unheard of, were a few South Seas natives and North American Indians."

Now I know this contradicts what I have heard from others that prefer to claim that pirates where mostly "English, French, and Spanish" (this actually puts English only 3rd in line!) and that "...blah, blah, blah - most pirates where deserters of the navy and preferred to dress similar....etc, etc, etc"; but then, I did not write this, I only read it...and it does claim to take their quantities from "trial records and ship's logs".

It also discussed how RED was a rare color then due to the way red die was created and that most likely when a pirate did manage to get hold of any red cloth they most likely displayed it as often as he could...until they loose it gambling, sell it for alcohol, or trade it to a dock trollop for pleasures (I will go with the later m'self!).

It stated that during the GAoP there was some writing from some author stating "the pirates looked ridicules and funny as they disembarked their ship, with colorful and mismatched clothing...." - it described how pirates like to flaunt anything they obtained that would be worn by royalty or the wealthy (most likely referring to fashions in England, France, and Spain) for it was "their way of showing - Hey, I am a FREE man and will do as I please".

Now back to Mayan; mostly all I gathered from their culture is that Spain used any they found as slaves to work the mines and maintain the cities, that be until the English (or other pirate type) came along and won the city, tortured the natives to tell where the treasure was hidden, and sometimes just killed them all. But no mention of 'finery' in the means of clothing - Gold and Silver, yes...but clothing...no mention.

But of course, most writings and documentations - both modern and historic - tend to be bias to those who did the documentation; such as the Romans - in recent years there has been much debate and even some "documentary" films made that question the ancient Roman documents in terms of their describing their own culture and "ingenuity" v.s. that of the Roman so-called "Barbarians"....apparently while investigating and re-investigating some ancient digs and artifacts it has been declared that the Romans actually 'acquired' some of their technology from these so-called Barbarians (but after all, we all know that Rome was not built in a day - but it did burn down overnight!). I have also followed one guy's declaration that the English may not be as 'pure' as many claim to be and that a MUCH larger number (apparently "up to one third the populace") may have actually come from across the water on the eastern side (Germany, etc) when the then marshes flooded and the marsh people where forced to flee and now evidence that they fled to England is now being dug up (I can't recall the year this is said to have happened but apparently until recently it was believed these Marsh Peoples did not have the technology to make the trip, but now evidence on both sides of the 'pond' show otherwise...but they say "stead fast English historians still reject this notion...." - except for one....)

Anyway, I know this does not answer the question of 'did any pirates where traditional Mayan garb', but it does add to 'where, who' pirates of the GAoP where (there was far more details but I think you get the idea in general)

Now as for "How much would a modern pirate Pay for such garb" - well, sorry but at this particular juncture in time I have t' concur with Slopmaker Cripps' third assessment.

~All skill be in vain if an angel pisses down th' barrel o' yer flintlock!

So keep yer cutlass sharp, 'n keep her close!

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The pictured pants although a good casual look for today; If I was going for a period look I know I can make a pair of simple slops or trousers/breeches for $15/18, more for wool or hemp. A weekend project to save a pile of cash is the way I'd go.

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