Ivan Henry aka Moose

That "X" of cord on the side of a tricorn

55 posts in this topic

Yeah, leather tricorns are right out.

I've also seen re-enactors wear the two parallel line style of lacing. Where it the surviving example located?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure one was in the Museum of London.... Looked at far too many hats over the last few years, occupational hazard of living with a hat maker. Visiting family at the mo, hence the iPad (little sister's not mine) I'll be back with my books this evening so I'll try and remember to do it then, though there are several bottles of very nice 7.5% cider than urgently need my attention %) hic!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This mid 18th century hat has something but not x

http://www.metmuseum...ctions/80036806

I post this here just for fun

here is hat from around 1690-1700s

docklands-pirates-mid-2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And just because...I was going through images and found one of Patrick with an 'X', though very understated.

I never noticed it before.

IMG_0702.JPG

My first hat had parallel lines on the sides. I only used it the one year, but would be glad of evidence supporting it.

IMG_0674.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Patrick is usually pretty good about his stuff being PC. I wonder if he has a source?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this tricorn from the Morristown Museum which looks like it has a side stitch in an 'x'. I tried not to get too excited without confirming it first.

Hat_Tricorn_MORR3874.jpg

I called the museum directly and asked them about this hat and any others that they have. The Park Ranger I spoke with said that they have an example of one tied up at the back, but not permanently stitched. She said that NONE of the hats they have are stitched to the crown, but Morristown is the latter part of the 1700s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this tricorn from the Morristown Museum which looks like it has a side stitch in an 'x'. I tried not to get too excited without confirming it first.

Hat_Tricorn_MORR3874.jpg

I called the museum directly and asked them about this hat and any others that they have. The Park Ranger I spoke with said that they have an example of one tied up at the back, but not permanently stitched. She said that NONE of the hats they have are stitched to the crown, but Morristown is the latter part of the 1700s.

I don't see x there and it seems not to have any (see how far away sides are from crown) It is just worn but there is not x at least visible one.

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, it looked like a tiny 'stitched' x at the very top most part, but isn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, it looked like a tiny 'stitched' x at the very top most part, but isn't.

sorry I should start read whole comments before I reply B) sorry.

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No harm done, I do it too.

Here's a piece from 1731 that's not an 'x' example but a lines example. It has the side ribbons or cords (that aren't quite parallel), but how do we know if these would be through the crown or just decoration on the upturned brim? Either way, you should note the interesing lace and 'carnival' mask tucked under the tricorn.

1731Example.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No harm done, I do it too.

Here's a piece from 1731 that's not an 'x' example but a lines example. It has the side ribbons or cords (that aren't quite parallel), but how do we know if these would be through the crown or just decoration on the upturned brim? Either way, you should note the interesing lace and 'carnival' mask tucked under the tricorn.

1731Example.jpg

I have 3 thinks to say

1. It can be thing that attach the rosette to the hat

2. there is no doubt that some kind of clamps whatever were indeed around at least later period than Gaop but this 1730s pic gives a picture that it was not so late style and indeed it can have nip to GAOP

but many of the hats in Gaop had no need for those since the tricorn then was little more loose.

see this hat in latter part of the same century (well replica but)

h-2435.jpg

3. it is still not x

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Teeny pic of 'Sweet William' aka Duke of Cumberland

note if you can see them the laces on the two visible sides

duke-cumberland.jpg

The cockade loop is a seperate bit of lace or cord sewn behind the 'cock' usually but not always on the wearers left and held with a button used to 'contain' the cockade

You can see that it's a separate thang to the rather thin cocking laces on this hat.

13208.jpg

And this'un

gallery_11212_412_13404.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm there is 3 new treads about hats....

As for reenacting I don't see those mid/ late century laces prob as far I don't see x on the pictures I am not going to complain ( and those lace thingys were around at least in 1730s like seen in the one pic)..... I see exaggeration of tricorn hats as a bigger issue. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with tricorns but often I see that about 80% of pirate reenactors use them while I think that 10%- 25% would be better and more accurate...

I ike posting hat pics so I post few

11_c1700.jpg

4_1688.jpg

Habitdeceremonie.JPG

This boy (on right corner) has interesting hat it seems to be tricorn (see the corner)

NAIVEU,%20Matthijs-749389.jpg

http://www.1st-art-g...-Shop-1709.html

same pic http://www.verreverw...gemak/1048.html

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually a pretty old thread about hats, specifically the cross on them. (Lately expanded to the silly decorations on hats.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually a pretty old thread about hats, specifically the cross on them. (Lately expanded to the silly decorations on hats.)

Eyes eyes...." silly decorations"!! :o :o take that back there is nothing silly about hat decorations.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Teeny pic of 'Sweet William' aka Duke of Cumberland

note if you can see them the laces on the two visible sides

duke-cumberland.jpg

The cockade loop is a seperate bit of lace or cord sewn behind the 'cock' usually but not always on the wearers left and held with a button used to 'contain' the cockade

You can see that it's a separate thang to the rather thin cocking laces on this hat.

13208.jpg

And this'un

gallery_11212_412_13404.jpg

Those hats are quite close to the Bicorns see evolution in late century..... Like I have said: "In history really often things do not happen suddenly but little by little and it is especially true with clothing"......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry Off topic

more hat pics

russian soldier 1700

1700_%C5%BCo%C5%82nierz_rosyjski.jpg

This is from circa 1736

tumblr_lmkk4j1lQA1qds4bko1_500.jpg

circa 1720 man

1074lrs_e7f1ea281058b7f.jpg?v=2011-11-14+15%3A29%3A25

hey note this 1725 pic of Stede Bonnet (we don't know how much it looks Bonnet but it is period pic and has period hat)

It seems to have one lace thing on the back

Bonnet2.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually a pretty old thread about hats, specifically the cross on them. (Lately expanded to the silly decorations on hats.)

Eyes eyes...." silly decorations"!! :o :o take that back there is nothing silly about hat decorations.....

Maybe you don't think so, but you wouldn't catch me dead in a hat with those things on it outside of a spirited (by which I mean drunken) hat swap game. A cross stitch, possibly. A rosette - no. Damned silly looking to my eye. (OTOH, so are knee pants and yet I wear those... :lol: )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually a pretty old thread about hats, specifically the cross on them. (Lately expanded to the silly decorations on hats.)

Eyes eyes...." silly decorations"!! :o :o take that back there is nothing silly about hat decorations.....

Maybe you don't think so, but you wouldn't catch me dead in a hat with those things on it outside of a spirited (by which I mean drunken) hat swap game. A cross stitch, possibly. A rosette - no. Damned silly looking to my eye. (OTOH, so are knee pants and yet I wear those... :lol: )

Well it is silly but it is also fun...... come on people do more silly things........

I think knee pants are good looking :P

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry Off topic

more hat pics

russian soldier 1700

1700_%C5%BCo%C5%82nierz_rosyjski.jpg

This is from circa 1736

tumblr_lmkk4j1lQA1qds4bko1_500.jpg

circa 1720 man

1074lrs_e7f1ea281058b7f.jpg?v=2011-11-14+15%3A29%3A25

hey note this 1725 pic of Stede Bonnet (we don't know how much it looks Bonnet but it is period pic and has period hat)

It seems to have one lace thing on the back

Bonnet2.gif

That is lace on Bonney's hat

sorry Off topic

more hat pics

russian soldier 1700

1700_%C5%BCo%C5%82nierz_rosyjski.jpg

This is from circa 1736

tumblr_lmkk4j1lQA1qds4bko1_500.jpg

circa 1720 man

1074lrs_e7f1ea281058b7f.jpg?v=2011-11-14+15%3A29%3A25

hey note this 1725 pic of Stede Bonnet (we don't know how much it looks Bonnet but it is period pic and has period hat)

It seems to have one lace thing on the back

Bonnet2.gif

That is lace on Bonnet's hat

Edited by Swashbuckler 1700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually a pretty old thread about hats, specifically the cross on them. (Lately expanded to the silly decorations on hats.)

Eyes eyes...." silly decorations"!! :o :o take that back there is nothing silly about hat decorations.....

Maybe you don't think so, but you wouldn't catch me dead in a hat with those things on it outside of a spirited (by which I mean drunken) hat swap game. A cross stitch, possibly. A rosette - no. Damned silly looking to my eye. (OTOH, so are knee pants and yet I wear those... :lol: )

Well it is silly but it is also fun...... come on people do more silly things........

I am in no way suggesting people shouldn't wear them. I'm only saying i wouldn't without good cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at this from a practical perspective, I've made several "tricorns" and they won't hold there shape without some extra stitching to hold the brim in place. Now as to the "X" or not I'm not sure, but from experience in trying to hole the shape of a tricorne, stitching seems to help. I'm still interested in more evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at this from a practical perspective, I've made several "tricorns" and they won't hold there shape without some extra stitching to hold the brim in place. Now as to the "X" or not I'm not sure, but from experience in trying to hole the shape of a tricorne, stitching seems to help. I'm still interested in more evidence.

It seems that somehow they often managed to do it without stitching (especially in gaop when tricornes were little bit looser than later ones)

like this ( I mean the boy there)

6_1693-5.jpg

I continue my posting of period (or nearly period) hat pics

52899-large.jpg

above Russian Hat of the Semenovsky Life Guards, 1727–30.

large.jpg

above that was Sligtly later hat from 1748

1720sWeb.jpg

above This is circa 1720

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that I always pick up the trivial things without any define reason. An why always the hats....

Looking old portraits of naval officers alike or in this case politicians I am starting to wonder for what purpose there is so many buttons on hats. Were they just for decoration or for some other purpose like to keep the hat in shape. But since the button is only on the one side it seems to be for beaty purposes...

Circa 1709

mw03655.jpg

Or indeed Blackbeard in this 1724 picture (while it is imagined the hat is real but did the Bb had that kind of hat well it is a different matter)

Blackbeard_the_Pirate.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you take a look at the pics you posted up there ↑ you'll see what the button's for =o)

'S for holding the cockade or cockade loop. The cockade could be just decoration but can also be used to show national identity and or political allegiances; like Jockobites wearing white Frenchie cockades, Hannovarian with black or red, or if you check out the Hogarth election series red or blue pending on what party they support. I tend to wear green (Levellers/Diggers from the previous century).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now