Talassar Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Using the Saber (unmounted) in true combat fashion is an interesting method. Mostly it is used in a hit and run, target of opportunity style. The Cutlass and Saber are generally heavier weapons and the user would tire quickly in prolonged close combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 What causes fatigue when cutlass fighting, and in most forms of swordsmanship, is a combination of improper footwork and body movement, and improper breathing. The former will keep you off balance and restrict your movement. The latter will flat out exhaust you., especially if you get in the habit of holding your breath when you should be breathing deeply and rhythmically. Swordsmanship is a blending of alternating passive and dynamic interludes. The successful swordsman merges with it, both physically, and spiritually (whether the spirit be light or dark). By merging, I mean aligning oneself as completely as possible with the rhythm of the encounter. These principles manifest themselves through constant, focused training. One of the main benefits is heightened endurance. Capt. Ian "Mad Dog" Davies, Ye Pyrate Brotherhood "The Code of Our Brotherhood is Better than all the Lies of Nations!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 By sabre, Talasser, I'm referring to the sport fencing "weapon", which is very lightweight; too light to really adequately simulate REAL sabre fighting. But for me it's a good, opportune way to acquire the basics of cut-fighting. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booga Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 I agree, we are obviously not talking about the same thing, as you seem to be talking about a sport. Since this forum topic is supposed to be devoted to historical pyrate combat, my opinions are historically based. Sport, well yes. But nonetheless my point is that these fencingmasters are masters of the sword, be it in sport or combat. They seldom have to defend their lifes with the sword, thats true, but the techniques are tought. But several of the fencingmasters were around when duels still were fought with sharpened sabres, so to say they only know sportfencing is nothing but bull. This is my point that I don´t seem to get through. Sure we don´t run around with swords in the streets today, and that is why the sword mostly is used in sports. But that does not mean that the art of self defence with a sword has traveled away from those who use it most. If you train under one of these fencingmasters you know that they most certanly can teach you duelfencing, battlefencing or any other non-sport style. Some don´t like it and will not teach you because of that, but others like it and will teach it if you ask and show interrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Sabre is surely a different style for one used to thrust weapons like sport epee and SCA schlager! I'm finding the parries more difficult that the attacks! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Capt.s William and Weaver.... Do you have any sources to back up your claim of seamen being unskilled. I would very much like to read them. Capt. Weaver. I would like to think that you have some other source besides the fact that seamen were pressed and whatnot. If you check your history, Under the Black Flag..... Blackbeard.... Pirates.. a history.... etc.... You will find a great deal of documentation to support that sailors and seamen were very skilled with the sword. Please pass on the sources you have, as I am much interested in this topic..... Thanks . The Capt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Jolie Rouge.... I agree with you on that a rapier required a different skill in its use. However, based on what history I've read, they were carried by some seamen as well as other types of swords. As far as pirates being from merchantmen. This too is true. As you point out, they were also from the regular navy. They were also from pig farmers and woodsman. They worked at a variety of trades, before turning pirate. There are also those who went straight into pirate. Like I said, I am quite certain that there were men who were ill adept with the sword. But, overall; based on what reading I have done, overall, they were quite skilled with a variety of weapons. I don't want to sound like an ass on this, it's just that I have a real passion for this topic and would love to keep this conversation going. Please share with us the books and sources you have , as I would very much like to read them. By all means, please keep your thoughts on this coming as well. It is becoming an enjoyable series of postings..... The Capt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Capt. Flint: I'll see what documentation I have on this matter of the relative lack of swordfighting skill among the average seaman. Alas, shipmates, I've had to call it quits on my own swordfighting; me old arthritic right knee just won't tolerate it any longer, so I've had to cease fencing, SCA rapier, and other things that stress the knee joint, such as the exercise bike, and Nautilus leg work. I still walk a lot, and me first mate and I are talking about starting water aerobics. Ah, well, there's always archery, and guns. Best to strike the swabs down from a distance, anyway! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Ladds n' Lassies, Wot's this? Have we not the stomach fer a boardin' action? Come now, ye call yerselves fierce pyrates... What would ya prefer ta arm yerselves with to board, how many etc... I'd say; a brace o' pistols, some extra shot n' powder - just might have time ta reload, two daggers, My trusty Cutlass, and if'n I feel like heftin' th' extra weight, an axe... Wot says You? Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Three brace,cutlass,boardin' axe, and a snogger full o' the sauce! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Two braces o pistol... back dagger and boot dagger...... cutlass or rapier.... and ax... I really enjoy fighting with sword and ax and sword and mace... Although, I do enjoy florentine style fighting very much also. Also.... WHERE ARE YOU MAD DOG? you were here now gone and have been gone for a while. Stop in and say hello, we would like to hear from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Ahoy Capt. Flint and all the scurvy dogs on the forum! The Mad Dog's been busy whippin' 'is crew into fightin' shape for the festival season. Ye Pyrate Brotherhood just returned from our 3rd year at the Olcott Beach Pirate Festival in NW NY State, on the shore of Lake Ontario. It blew a gale for a good part of the time, but we kept our powder dry and managed to get in a parade and 4 treasure hunts. I want to remind all hands that the upcoming episode of the tv show "Conquest" is all about Pirate Combat, this Sunday, 7/27 @ 10:30 EST. I intend to tape it and it should make for some interesting scuttlebutt here at "Boarders Away!". "Till the next turn of the glass. Capt. Ian "Mad Dog" Davies, Ye Pyrate Brotherhood "The Code of Our Brotherhood is Better than all the Lies of Nations!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I just did my first choreographed sword fight for the POTC premiere here and I'm looking forward to many more! I also have had a few months of foil fencing, which is an entirely different experience altogether. I had to put that aside for work reasons unfortunately, but hope to pick it up again at a later date! -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 RRRRRRRRRR! Where's me grapple?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 . I want to remind all hands that the upcoming episode of the tv show "Conquest" is all about Pirate Combat, this Sunday, 7/27 @ 10:30 EST. I intend to tape it and it should make for some interesting scuttlebutt here at "Boarders Away!". "Till the next turn of the glass. What channel would that be? PBS? TLC? Discovery? I'd like to chart a course for my VRC for it. BTW did my first public sword fight at the Disney employee picnic on July 12th! Did OK only have a VHS, no pics to post. :-( Thanks Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 That'd be the History channel, regular program, usually after mail call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 That'd be the History channel, regular program, usually after mail call Darn! I don't get the History Channel I'll have to find a shipmate who dose and get them to tape it. Thanks for the info. I just been informed that a freind of mine who is a historical & theatrical swordsman will be on the show. Look for an olive skinned slightly asian guy, with long black hair, that's Mario. He says he's been in a few of them. Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ... I just been informed that a freind of mine who is a historical & theatrical swordsman will be on the show. Â Look for an olive skinned slightly asian guy, with long black hair, that's Mario. He says he's been in a few of them. ... Mario's in it? I don't recall him mentioning that when he posted about the upcoming Conquests. Such a modest young man. Mario's Asian??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 Thanks Royaliste! Sorry to all hands for neglecting to state that "Conquest " is on the History Channel . I was working on a tall tiki drink when I did that posting. Capt. Ian "Mad Dog" Davies, Ye Pyrate Brotherhood "The Code of Our Brotherhood is Better than all the Lies of Nations!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Aye, let's all watch the show, and root fer Mario! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ... I just been informed that a freind of mine who is a historical & theatrical swordsman will be on the show. Â Look for an olive skinned slightly asian guy, with long black hair, that's Mario. He says he's been in a few of them. ... Mario's in it? I don't recall him mentioning that when he posted about the upcoming Conquests. Such a modest young man. Mario's Asian??? Well he he did say he might make it into the Ninja episode. ;-) I've seen him cast in a wide range of "ehtnic" roles. That's a good thing for casting though. Hell he's a French man in "Farside of the World/Master & Commander"! :) Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 Well Shipmates, Have none o' ye gotten to watch the pyrate combat episode on "Conquest" this past week? I expected to see a volley of differing opinions fired back and forth here, but it would seem either no one watched it or no one thought much of it. So I guess I'll get the cannonball rolling. I saw it and thought it was passable, considering past episodes that I enjoyed more and looked forward to less. Peter Woodward's knowledge, logic, and enthusiasm carried the program as usual, but the overall production seemed a little makeshift. I'm probably as used to seeing the regular team of British reenacters as PW is used to working with them. The American "pyrates" seemed both unfamiliar and uneasy with PW, and I get the impression the whole show was kind of rushed. I liked the fact that the brutal reality of pyrate combat was stressed and Hollywood iconography dismissed, especially "fencing" with cutlasses. In truth, I only saw the show once and hope to catch it again over this weekend. Perhaps my opinion will change, but I doubt it. Capt. Ian "Mad Dog" Davies, Ye Pyrate Brotherhood "The Code of Our Brotherhood is Better than all the Lies of Nations!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I taped it, and agree it was 'rushed', but, not to inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I fell asleep just as it started. Will try to catch it this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 You must have really been bushed, Deacon; it was a good show; not at all sleep-inducing! I agree that it was hurried. I'm not sure if there weren't some errors, but I believe that on the whole it was accurate. I doubt that sabres and Scottish broadswords were any the more handy for close quarters combat than heavy-bladed rapiers, but so-they-said. I'm also curious as to whether our period brethren used pistols in the manner shown: as off-hand weapons, accompanying the cutlass, which was used in the dominant hand; the pistol being discharged at point blank range, then either dropped and another one drawn, or fliped around in the hand and used butt-first as a parrying weapon and club. Personally, I'd have been reluctant to get up close and personal with any edged weapon as long as I could keep me distance and pick off my opponents with any sort of a firearm! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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