Tartan Jack Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 While on it . . . Were letters of marque all hand written? Were some printed too? - Just wondering. I know the press was quite common by then and books, pamphlets, fliers, booklets, and all sorts of printed material were very common. What about common "form" documents like letters of marque? -John "Tartan Jack" Wages, of South Carolina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjöröveren Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Why is it that we make everything look old? Obviously things were new at one point in time.... It makes senses for we reenactors to use items that look new, since we are "living" in that era. For the non-reenactor, I would guess that they get these things as a sort of faux-antique, and so wants them to look the part. It depends who PoD's target market is. Maybe he could offer both versions, depending on who's buying it. I think the more correct approach would be t' make it look 'Weathered' not 'old' or 'aged'. This got me to thinking. Since letters of marque could mean the difference between life and death, they would be some the most important documents in a captain's possesion, right up there with his charts and ship's log. He would keep them very secure - away from weather, smoke, waves or anything else that could possibly damage them, wouldn't he? Safely protected in his cabin, I would think. This is just a supposition on my part. Is there any historical support for my guess? the Fool's Gold Pirates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Henry aka Moose Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Why is it that we make everything look old? Obviously things were new at one point in time.... I've been thinking about this as well. I think there is a notion for us to make vintage things look as they would now. that makes little to no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 I just took the ageing off and printed it on plain vellum and it looks good like that too. I think thats a good idea to sell new looking ones as well as aged ones depending on who wants them. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 To be perfectly blunt. It looks very smart. I think that you did a wonderful job on the design, printing and overall appearance. We can argue all the finer points, and indeed we should for discussion's sake, but you did a damn fine job. thank you for not burning the edges. Burnt edges are so cliche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 To be perfectly blunt. It looks very smart. I think that you did a wonderful job on the design, printing and overall appearance. We can argue all the finer points, and indeed we should for discussion's sake, but you did a damn fine job. thank you for not burning the edges. Burnt edges are so cliche. Ha ha my wife wont let me play with fire no more ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misson Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) I just took the ageing off and printed it on plain vellum and it looks good like that too. I think thats a good idea to sell new looking ones as well as aged ones depending on who wants them. Would you share the results of the sales of "new" documents, if you don't mind? I am all curious to see how it affects your sales now. Edited June 19, 2009 by Misson "I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” -Oscar Wilde "If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted is really true, there would be little hope of advance." -Orville Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 I just took the ageing off and printed it on plain vellum and it looks good like that too. I think thats a good idea to sell new looking ones as well as aged ones depending on who wants them. Would you share the results of the sales of "new" documents, if you don't mind? I am all curious to see how it affects your sales now. Ok I am just going to change the ebay listing and see what happens. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadL Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) ( hu? can't find now who said it first - damn me aging peepers!) The one and most truly statement be: "Who is the maker's target market?" Of course from an artist's perspective PoD designed them as 'aged' as this is what the 'artist' sees when researching his/her project, this is what is on the museum walls, in the records, and often then not what they see in the movies. My guess is that at least 90% here first set out to 'age' their kit, why? because that is what we see in our mind when we think how to be a 300 ot year old character. But then of course, as we go along we begin t' think of such rational things as: "Am I 300 years old, or am I portraying a character 300 years ago?" I would have t' stand with PoD, he is th' artist and creator, his muse told him what t' make and personally I think it a fine piece, one I have book marked t' return t' me own self. Perhaps th' proper approach would be more like: PoD, would ye be so kind as t' consider make'n some fer us reenactors what not be look'n 'aged'? Would ye be so kind as t' consider make'n some what look 'freshly issued', perhaps even some what look 'slightly used'? ...'n then if he refuse, we will pull out th' Plank! Edited June 20, 2009 by MadL ~All skill be in vain if an angel pisses down th' barrel o' yer flintlock! So keep yer cutlass sharp, 'n keep her close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 PoD, would ye be so kind as t' consider make'n some fer us reenactors what not be look'n 'aged'? Would ye be so kind as t' consider make'n some what look 'freshly issued', perhaps even some what look 'slightly used'?...'n then if he refuse, we will pull out th' Plank! ha ha I have already changed the auction on ebay to offer an as new version as well as an aged version. I did a bit o' research and the letters of marque were printed on vellum so i can print them as new easily (good job too as Hemp paper isnt easy to find in the UK) ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 This one is a little bit dirty rather than aged: ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I did a bit o' research and the letters of marque were printed on vellum so i can print them as new easily (good job too as Hemp paper isnt easy to find in the UK) You can get vellum easier than hemp paper??? Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 I did a bit o' research and the letters of marque were printed on vellum so i can print them as new easily (good job too as Hemp paper isnt easy to find in the UK) You can get vellum easier than hemp paper??? Yeah loads of places sell vellum around me. It's used in card making now so its quite easy to get. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Jack Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I did a bit o' research and the letters of marque were printed on vellum so i can print them as new easily (good job too as Hemp paper isnt easy to find in the UK) You can get vellum easier than hemp paper??? In the US anything hemp is hard to find. That includes hemp rope, hemp fabric, and hemp paper. I have a friend that makes hemp kilts. He has to import the material from Canada. He also has had to argue with cops and customs that it isn't drug paraphernalia . . . Sometimes, the US makes blanket laws that sound good on the surface, but also imply in many unintended and rather odd ways. Though, modern vellum isn't always what vellum used to be. Real vellum is paper made from a sheet of very thin leather. It is near indestructable, often reused in ancient and medieval times. One document (forgot which one), it was discovered by new modern testing techniques, had been used many, many times. What they would do is to wash off the ink and reuse the vellum. Modern vellum is a plastic-cotton paper, made to look and feel like vellum, but isn't actually vellum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vellum (It is easy to read and, in general, fits with the facts I know.) I'm not sure which form of vellum was meant in the early 1700s, though. I assume it was actual vellum. I don't know where o buy actual vellum . . . -John "Tartan Jack" Wages, of South Carolina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I did a bit o' research and the letters of marque were printed on vellum so i can print them as new easily (good job too as Hemp paper isnt easy to find in the UK) You can get vellum easier than hemp paper??? Yeah loads of places sell vellum around me. It's used in card making now so its quite easy to get. Thats garbage! lol. When I was looking for period paper and such I had myself set on getting vellum and i couldn't find a decent source for it anywhere! So I settled for hemp paper....Lucky you lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) ahhh looks like its modern vellum i have been getting hold of then rather than the 17th century version. Still it looks as near as damn it so it'll do for now. Although I have just found this link that tells you how to make imitation vellum so might have a go at that: http://www.edenworkshops.com/Imitation%20V...ent%20Paper.pdf Edited June 20, 2009 by PoD ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Ah, right, I see. Real (period) vellum is so obviously leather (usually pig-skin judging by the texture of the reverse) that I doubt any modern paper substitute comes anywhere close... Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 Ah, right, I see.Real (period) vellum is so obviously leather (usually pig-skin judging by the texture of the reverse) that I doubt any modern paper substitute comes anywhere close... Yep just another of them materials lost in the mists of time. Although I am quite suprised that no one at all makes it in this day and age. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 You might try searching through the S.C.A., there might be someone that has tried to make some...... I half way remember something about someone in the Limners Guild making or selling vellum... but that was about 20 years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 You might try searching through the S.C.A., there might be someone that has tried to make some...... I half way remember something about someone in the Limners Guild making or selling vellum... but that was about 20 years ago.... I'm just checking it out now. Haven't come across anyone selling it yet but there is a guide to making it here: http://www.geocities.com/housesingingstone...s/vhandout.html ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Ok found some suppliers it looks like; Is this the right stuff they are selling: http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/pro...egoryFullID=204 http://www.hewit.com/acatalog/Vellum.html ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pyrat Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) PoD mate, not to take anything away from your work, your original was excellent and would be an outstanding addition to any display. Since you are doing so much research on this, here's what I'd be interested in and perhaps others here. LoM on period correct vellum, weathered a bit, from Queen Anne dated during the War of Spanish Succession (Queen Anne's War) and made out to me. The high point of the GAoP being after Queen Anne's War up to about 1722 the document would be expired but indicate the bearer had been a privateer prior to starting the sweet trade. Such a document would make an excellent addition to my rig and greatly add to the background story for me pyrate. Edited June 23, 2009 by Joe Pyrat The Charles Towne Few - We shall sail... The sea will be our empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 PoD mate, not to take anything away from your work, your original was excellent and would be an outstanding addition to any display. Since you are doing so much research on this, here's what I'd be interested in and perhaps others here. LoM on period correct vellum, weathered a bit, from Queen Anne dated during the War of Spanish Succession (Queen Anne's War) and made out to me. The high point of the GAoP being after Queen Anne's War up to about 1722 the document would be expired but indicate the bearer had been a privateer prior to starting the sweet trade. Such a document would make an excellent addition to my rig and greatly add to the background story for me pyrate. Thats actually what I have been thinking of doing for my next project. I have found a Queen Anne cypher that I am going to have made up into a wax seal stamp. The majority of the text was from a Queen Anne letter of marque anyway so it shouldnt be to hard to convert. The hard bit will be getting the vellum cheap enough. The UK supplier above seems to be charging a hell of a lot compared to the U.S. supplier. I might just buy it and have it shipped over from there. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The UK supplier seems to be charging by the skin while the US supplier is charging (slightly more) by the square foot. A 7.25 square feet skin would cost £136 from the UK supplier, but £174 at the current exchange rate from the US. Might I suggest that if you're going to go to the expense of procuring vellum then it would be a crime to print it on a computer. Also, if you're going to go to such lengths then why not take a trip to London and have a look at some real letters of marque at the National Archives to get the feel of the thing. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 The UK supplier seems to be charging by the skin while the US supplier is charging (slightly more) by the square foot. A 7.25 square feet skin would cost £136 from the UK supplier, but £174 at the current exchange rate from the US.Might I suggest that if you're going to go to the expense of procuring vellum then it would be a crime to print it on a computer. Also, if you're going to go to such lengths then why not take a trip to London and have a look at some real letters of marque at the National Archives to get the feel of the thing. I was just about to ask if anyone knew where there was an actual example of a letter of marque. It's the size more than anything i need as I know they were way bigger than letter size so if they did actually come in a wallet they would have been folded quite a bit. As for the printing, that was another thing i was looking at. If I get the chance I could mill out the letters and try printing it on a press rather than a computer. Not sure i'd have the skills or the patience to hand write one. From what I can tell you cant print on calf skin vellum in a traditional computer printer anyway. You'd probably have to use dye sublimation or similar. I was just checking the prices and realised the US one was per square foot. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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