hitman Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 My curiosity is runnin wild Whats you're favorite if other please post. THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 i wouldn't care what kind os ship, as long as it's filled with treasure!! "This calls for a particularly subtle blend of psychology & extereme violence." -Vivian, The Young Ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Tops'l schooner. Small, fast, shallow draft, but with enough deck to hold a 6-8 gun broadside. Everything else listed is too big. I wouldn't want to get into a broadside battle so I wouldn't need the weight of iron that the other ships listed would carry, and the only need for a bigger ship is to carry more iron. No, I probably couldn't take on the larger ships, but it's a point of diminishing returns. You can take a bigger ship with more spoil, but if you have a bigger ship, then you have a bigger crew and your shares are proportionally smaller. Same result with smaller ships and smaller crews, but with less risk. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I be fine wif' the one I 'ave!!..Outsails most brigs an' schooners, will sail to windward o.k., an' outguns most her size due to a lack 'o gunport doors.......At seventy some feet, I kin manage her in most weather, an' sail in an' out 'o line warfare....... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Im with you, Master Hawkins Give me a sloop of war anytime. Something that will sail reliably on a wet tile floor. Z Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'm with the Captain on this one. The larger ships we battle bog down in the water and the Royaliste (she's a gaff-rigged ketch) zips around them, stinging them like a little hornet! About the only time we are at a disadvantage is if they are motoring, as the larger commercial charter tall ships are equipped with much more powerful motors. If we're going historic, my dubloons are on the Royaliste (or the equivalent) every time. She's very similar in her proportions to the Black Prince, the privateer that was commissioned by Benjamin Franklin and who had a near legendary record for taking British prizes. And the more swivel guns on deck, the better. The Black Prince had 30 swivels and 4 deck guns. By the by, I did an article on Ben Franklin and his 3 privateer ships, which should be in the next issue of No Quarter Given. -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Aye I did list the big lasses didn't I couldn't help it . I have to admit I listed em because I love that giant spread a canvas. I am a little suprised to see a lack of love for the galley it could out run any of the other ships and distance itself even further by rowing into the wind. Course one good broadside and you're left with tooth picks. FYI I picked the wind jammer the last of the great tall ships and set up so you could drive round the horn with a class 4 gale at your back ( I wouldn't wanna do it though). Hate to admit it but I must conceede defeat for a pirate vessel she's just too big but then at 255 I'm no light weight me self. THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 "Bloody 'eck!!..We'll tackle 'em all sizes!!! The Nippon Maru, over 110 meters o.a.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Just wondering: with no diesel, how many hands do you need to control the Royaliste? "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Tops'l schooner. Small, fast, shallow draft, but with enough deck to hold a 6-8 gun broadside. Everything else listed is too big. I wouldn't want to get into a broadside battle so I wouldn't need the weight of iron that the other ships listed would carry, and the only need for a bigger ship is to carry more iron.No, I probably couldn't take on the larger ships, but it's a point of diminishing returns. You can take a bigger ship with more spoil, but if you have a bigger ship, then you have a bigger crew and your shares are proportionally smaller. Same result with smaller ships and smaller crews, but with less risk. Hawkyns I always thought it wasn't the size of your ship but what you did with it that mattered. ;-) I have heard of pirates with small sloops taking on much bigger vessels. :-) Personally I'd take what ever I could get my little hands on! Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Battleship out of the question? Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 That would be a ship of the line, EP, a First Rate 100 or better. Huge and slow to maneuver, and one bloody huge crew. Shares might be a bit small Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Bigger ship, smaller shares .. Hmm... Now that's when size really matters! Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 On the question of how many hands it takes to sail the Royaliste- it's all relative. Gary has actually sailed her single-handedly, which is quite a feat! So technically I guess you could say 1, but obviously, that is less than ideal. Usually Gary likes to have at least 3 experienced hands at a minimum. More is better though. Generally if the weather is good, the issue isn't sailing per say, but getting her in and out of her slip. Coming back in, it requires that we bring all 70 feet of her in through a narrow opening in the sea wall at a very awkward angle, because we have to make a hard and immediate turn starboard into the slip, without hitting the sea wall or the dock, or catching things like the dock's satelite dish or their lines with the bowsprit! Then, the second that turn is made, we have to halt 30 tons of ship in motion, before she hits the Orca, Gary's other ship. Getting out of the slip requires us to back out and "snap" her straight to make the sharp angle, using the stern line. (Captain, please make whatever corrections you have to the above descriptions.) -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 That would be a ship of the line, EP, a First Rate 100 or better. Huge and slow to maneuver, and one bloody huge crew. Shares might be a bit small Hawkyns Yeah but think of the heavily fortified cities you could take out singlehandedly... Booty galore! Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hmm, pretty durn close, 'Quill, 'cept'n that'd be an aft spring line, not the stern line...It's more relevant to how well armed your prize is, not so much your size.. Pacific Manila Galleons weren't even carryin' cannon for a hundred years or so!!..Same wif' Acapulco, 'n other New Spain holdings..So, even a small well armed ship could whip bloody 'eck outta the treasure ships! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 So Cap'n... ye' be a-sayin' that size doesn't matter?!!! -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Thanks for the info. The biggest vessel I've ever sailed was an eighteen-foot catamaran. Not exactly a grand pirate vessel. Of course, my boy scout troop only got a fifty-foot vessel AFTER I moved. My old Scoutmaster, a hairy-nostriled Manchunian with a serious excelsior complex, the sort of man upon whose back was built the British Empire, has no qualms sailing with his teenage (and younger) crew from Chicago to Traverse City(!), the Edmund Fitzgerald notwithstanding. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crow Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Tops'l schooner. Small, fast, shallow draft, but with enough deck to hold a 6-8 gun broadside. Everything else listed is too big. I wouldn't want to get into a broadside battle so I wouldn't need the weight of iron that the other ships listed would carry, and the only need for a bigger ship is to carry more iron.No, I probably couldn't take on the larger ships, but it's a point of diminishing returns. You can take a bigger ship with more spoil, but if you have a bigger ship, then you have a bigger crew and your shares are proportionally smaller. Same result with smaller ships and smaller crews, but with less risk. Hawkyns I have to agree with mister Hawkins small and fast not to much freeboard , a harder target to hit and she would easily out sait and outrun any of the bigger ships mentioned . Lord above please send a dove with wings as sharp as razors , to cuts the throats of them there blokes what sells bad booze to sailors .. " Illigitimiti non carborundum . " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Couple a points here some just for fun others for the sheer joy ofit. 1 Crow none of the ships (Top sail schooner included) could out run either the moonrakers (who unless some of the raceing rigs have beaten it in the last two years still holds the record for longest distance sailed in a day) or the galley. One praticular form of galley (correct me if I get its name wrong) the trimrine???? held the speed record for any ship in the med until the arrival of the fast steam engine. 2 Hey imagine this take a wind jammer and add half a dozen 100 pounder armstrong breech loaders per side then go and ransack Paris! 3 Hey I really appreciate the posts all THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scupper Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I think I'd take a Tern Schooner. They were fast and able vessels that could catch a merchant vessel and still have the size to scrap in a fight ship to ship. Scupper "That's the navy for you. Rum in the scuppers today. Blood in the scuppers tomorrow."Thrist is a shameless disease. So here's to a shameful cure!"Loyalty, honesty and directness are traits I admire. Insecurity, snipes and disrespect I will not tolerate in the least." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crow Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Couple a points here some just for fun others for the sheer joy ofit.1 Crow none of the ships (Top sail schooner included) could out run either the moonrakers (who unless some of the raceing rigs have beaten it in the last two years still holds the record for longest distance sailed in a day) or the galley. One praticular form of galley (correct me if I get its name wrong) the trimrine???? held the speed record for any ship in the med until the arrival of the fast steam engine. 2 Hey imagine this take a wind jammer and add half a dozen 100 pounder armstrong breech loaders per side then go and ransack Paris! 3 Hey I really appreciate the posts all Well master hitman I think that you should have been a little more timeline specific when comparing sailing vessels . I thought that you were refering to vessels used in piracy or suitable for that use. I believe the greek vessel you were refering to was the Trireme and they were in use about c.480 B.C. in the Med and yes they were very fast . As for the clipper ships that is true clipper ships they hadn't really evolved untill after 1849 the first true clipper was the Rainbow designed by john Griffiths and built by Smith and Dimon of new York . Unless you were refering to the Baltimore clippers but they hadn't been developed before 1812 . But the baltimore clipper wasn't really considered a true clipper , both forms of the clipper having been developed after the golden age of piracy I am not sure that this would be considered a valid comparison . And as mister Hawkyns said to big a crew makes for to small a share. Not that Pyrates aren't a generous sort .. Lord above please send a dove with wings as sharp as razors , to cuts the throats of them there blokes what sells bad booze to sailors .. " Illigitimiti non carborundum . " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I'd have to go with small, maneuverable, fast, and well armed with a small, but experienced crew for most piracy, but it would all depend on your style. Different methods of taking the enemy ship, along with differing naval activity and prey preparedness would change the vessel you wanted. Some pirates used long boats and raided ships in the harbor. As long as they knew how to fight, and could sneak up to the ship in the middle of the night, then they could take it and either sail away, or steal cargo/money. For ransacking towns, a large ship and large crew would probably be usefull. A larger vessel that can be minimally manned is more intimidating, and can carry more pirated cargo. The smaller vessels usually had a thinner hull, and thus may not survive the broadside of a naval vessel that cornered them or lured them in to range. It's all about the tradeoffs. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Agreed me should a been more specific, but if you dont mind me saying the Trireme( thank you) was used in piracy as well as many other forms of galleys. Not only in the golden years of fighting sail but before them as well. The trick to them was to approach your opponets in a dead calm and storm them. Escape was always handy as you could row at high speed directly into the wind defeating the power source of the purseor. This slight discretion aside I take your point and that of Hawkins quite seriously the use of smaller vessels by pirates for all the reasons stated is not only the way it was, but the best approach. As to my listing of the larger vessels it was as I stated before a long love of the big girls on my part that got them there but also a curiosity if the choice was up to you would you take one as your ship. THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 So Cap'n... ye' be a-sayin' that size doesn't matter?!!! "Hmm, ain't sayin' that at all!!!..But when it comes to a fight, e'en a big 'n with no cannon be easy pickins'!! :) (although factually, a lot of Pacific pirate attacks were turned around by the intensity of the small arms fire). 'Size'--mebbee, at least a minimum 'Overall performance'--everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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