William Brand

Bale Seals, Company Emblems, Maker's marks, & Trade Symbols

55 posts in this topic

I assume you're familiar with the East India Company flag, a.k.a. John Company's gridiron. And then there's the Royal Africa Company flag. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by "logo," though.

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I mean what would be emblazoned on shipping boxes, wrapped goods, and company emblazoned covers for stuff.

Something like this (Dutch East India Company):

200px-VOC.svg.png

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What I have found in the past is the painter's canvas home depot sells for $5 (4 ft by 8ft) works for covering most shipping containers and holds up well to painting logos on. Also just for kicks it is also the exact size you need if you want to make a canvas waistcoat for men's size 44 to 46

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I'm looking more for period-correct logos, I've already got some canvas and access to plenty more (gotta pay for it, of course . . . )

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I started this thread a while back and there are some good examples there as well.

http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=10480

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Bump.

Put a sticky on this one!

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Here's a mysterious mark.

That ghastly device is intended to burn the letters ATI into a person's chest. It is in the Cape Coast Castle Museum. But I cannot find out whether "ATI" meant an individual slave trader, or a company of them. The Royal African Company's brand was supposedly "DY" for the Duke of York, James Stuart.

Edit: It is possible that the photo is reversed, in which case the brand would read ITA. But I'm not coming up with the name of an individual or company of those initials either that did business at Cape Coast Castle.

Edited by Daniel

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I meant to post these French marks after Fort de Chartres back in June and forgot.

IMG_9949.JPG

IMG_9950.JPG

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That's cool, Will.

This is a great thread. Anyone find any more shipping logos/labels? I'm curious to see what else there is.

~Lady B

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Theres some interesting Logos on the Bails next to Blackbeard in this 1736 engraving.

Edward_Teach_Commonly_Call%27d_Black_Beard_(bw).jpg

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Theres some interesting Logos on the Bails next to Blackbeard in this 1736 engraving.

Indeed. I wish we had a translation of those.

Most of the images I find, in museums and recreated at historic sites, stem from royal emblems. For example, the above use of three Fluer-de-lis. This is of course French and the same three emblems appear on French coins of the same period. I've found some excellent examples of such symbols use both on coins and containers of the era, so I plan to make some block stamps of a few of these for the purpose of marking barrels and bales. I'll post pdf examples of these for anyone wishing to use them for camp props.

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Theres some interesting Logos on the Bails next to Blackbeard in this 1736 engraving.

Indeed. I wish we had a translation of those.

Most of the images I find, in museums and recreated at historic sites, stem from royal emblems. For example, the above use of three Fluer-de-lis. This is of course French and the same three emblems appear on French coins of the same period. I've found some excellent examples of such symbols use both on coins and containers of the era, so I plan to make some block stamps of a few of these for the purpose of marking barrels and bales. I'll post pdf examples of these for anyone wishing to use them for camp props.

thats very cool. i'd had the same idea but am waiting until i get a milling machine as i'm rubbish at hand carving

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Print it out on yer 'puter and stick it on the tater/bit of lino/bit of wood to carve round.....or get Gegory23 off Livinghistory.co.uk to do it for you, dab hand with a woodblock that chap.

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By all means, Will. Would love to see what ye have. Very curious to see what variety of shipping companies were around.

I'd imagine though that there were a few smuggled items that were in unmarked containers, too.

~Lady B

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FWIW, I have a 1755 Dutch copper coin I found as a toddler in grandma's garden. It's about the size of a US quarter, but half as thick. It has the Royal crest on one side and the same VOC mark as in the earlier posts here. Maybe that will help with the timeline. How that coin ended up near Pleasant Hill, Missouri...????

Bo

(yeah, I know, I said I was takin a different path and wouldn't be around anymore. I just can't stay away from this place though. Addictions! GEEEZ!)

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Sinds where dealing here mostly about the west i thought a logo of the west indian compagnie might by interresting also...

gallery_11212_412_4704.jpg

gallery_11212_412_5117.jpg

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(yeah, I know, I said I was takin a different path and wouldn't be around anymore. I just can't stay away from this place though. Addictions! GEEEZ!)

Awww... LOL... at least this is a healthy addiction, Bo. And I'm sure many of us are glad to be part of yo'r addiction. :) Glad that ye come back at least. :)

And very wicked about the coin. Too worn for a picture? That's a rare treat indeed.

West Indian company? The logo looks great. What more info do you have on this company? I'm intregued.

~Lady B

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Not too good with this you know.Hope this works

miscstuff.jpg

miscstuff003.jpg

Closer to nickel size than quarter, still only half as thick though.

Bo

Edited by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

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West Indian company? The logo looks great. What more info do you have on this company? I'm intregued.

~Lady B

Like the name inplyed, they went the opposite direction of the VOC, towards america and the Caribbean.

however after they sold New Amsterdam to the English (one of the most stuppid things whe ever did in history)the organisation declined a bit. If it wasn't so I could have typed this post in my own mothers tongue... ;)

My link

My link

My link

oh, and they had cuns to... very nice ones that is to say... ;)

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It's kind of interesting that we gravitate to the EI Companies looking for corporation marks when their routes didn't really include the West Indies. I'm sure some of their goods made it out to the WI and the Colonies, but most of them seem to have circulated around Asia, India and Europe from my reading. (If someone has more knowledge than I, I stand open to correction on this point.)

Anyhow, I have been curvetting around the 'net when I came across bale, cloth and bag seals. These were coin-like discs used to seal the items mentioned. Many of them have government imprints, some have company imprints and most have quantity [of the goods inside] imprints on them. Very interesting little items that have more than a few web sources which could be used to design a company logo if one were so inclined. For those wanting it nice and simple, I found some info on the Colchester Treasure Hunting web page. Colchester is in Essex and is nicely situated in relation to the sea, so one might expect to find some interesting seals there. They also have a nice layout that is easy to peruse. For example:

cmseal.jpg

Which they describe as: "Lead bale seal with traders mark CM" (It doesn't give a date and these things appear to have existed from the 12th - 19th centuries, so that must be accounted for.)

If you like to dig, the UK Finds Database provides hundreds of seals, sorted into categories including by very rough dating. Some of the seals they have photos of are quite hard to read, so you really do have to sift and sort if you want to avail yourself of their content. They do give a great deal more information on just what it is you're looking at, though.

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Very cool thread indeed. What about Spanish markings? I'm assuming there would have been a lot of their stuff stolen by pirates, and I wonder what types of marking they used, and if there are any extant examples?

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I think some time ago, there was a good thread on these. I wasn't to find it on my search (which is rare, as I am usually good at finding things here).

What good historical sources and images for these marking are out there? Or if easier, a link to the old discussion if someone has better search-voodoo than I do on this topic.

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Is this the discussion you were looking for?

http://pyracy.com/index.php/topic/10480-logos-emblems-of-period-companies/?hl=logos

[Note - This above topic was merged with this one and the link no longer exists. -Mission.]

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That is indeed the one.... Thanks for that! Now off to do some research.. Hopefully I will find some stuff worthy of adding.

I did also find this brief topic on the pub.... http://pyracy.com/index.php/topic/11787-trade-symbols;-organization-merchant-etc/

[Note - This above topic was merged with this one and the link no longer exists. -Mission.]

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