Capt. Sterling Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Question for you Boys... There has been debate on other chat sites about what time the "Red Heel shoes" were vogue. Anyone know when it started and when it ended? Some say it was a sign that you had been presented at court... whatever it was a fashion during the GAoP, tongues of shoes as well.... Red heels more red heels and yet more Sorry guys wasn't allowed to post directly (any idea what dynamic photos are??) These are fashion plates from the time frame of the earlier GAoP... these show what gentlemen wore... the fops seemed to have taken such basic fashions to the extremes... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Sorry Captain The photos/paintings are not showing up. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I can view them... "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Must be my computer. I'll have to see them later at home. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 As I started on another thread... One's Fop name????? What do you think???? Middle name and ones street or pet's name????? Rats AKA: Tippy Allen BTW: Reggie!!! I thought you were dead!!!! No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Can we just keep it here for a while longer? I think keeping it here is better also.... In Twill we will "beat it to death".... hear we have some leaway.... Not that I'm ever going to go (shudder) fop or nothin'...... I be a good common scummy Pyrate like..... But we gots ter 'ave someone ter be pickin' on...... (First fop that says "la" gets ter taste the brunt O' me blunderbuss....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald Killingsworth Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share Posted June 27, 2007 Can we just keep it here for a while longer? I think keeping it here is better also.... In Twill we will "beat it to death".... hear we have some leaway I have just received word from Master Hawkyns that this chat thread will remain where it is. I do agree with Master Hand. Twill could end up ‘beating it to death’ – yet, let me state that I have not even started on obtaining the mass information regarding manner and dress during the GAoP. I think perhaps addressing this thread as an information gathering site would do for a start, then perhaps discussions in detail will follow. I look forward to doing so shortly. ….And Yes, Rats…you are correct about my passing. But they say it is hard to keep a good man down, don’t they? Allow me to be frank at the commencement; You will not like me...™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Sorry Johnny Tarr, officers & gentlemen do not equal fop... And Reggie... careful, if you move this to TWILL, give more evidence that coincides with the GAoP, not late 18th century... Ok What is the definition of a Fop? I know that the definition of gentlemen would very from person to person. Would the definition of Fop very as much? Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Syren Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Ok What is the definition of a Fop? I know that the definition of gentlemen would very from person to person. Would the definition of Fop very as much? From what I have read I could very much well be wrong but a fop was a man at court who exuded extreme fashion awareness, he wore makeup, and or one or more velvet patches. He was very feminine in his bearing often mincing about rather than walking normally. He was usually the one who started fashion trends was very intelligent and a rapier wit. But that is simply what I have read.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Dara286/trident01-11.png If you got a dream chase it, cause a dream won't chase you back...(Cody Johnson Till you Can't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald Killingsworth Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share Posted June 27, 2007 Black Syren has given a good impression of what we know - thank you my Dear. The Webster Dictionary definition of a Fob is one whose ambition it is to gain admiration by showy dress; a coxcomb; an inferior dandy. Yet, we are specifically looking at 1680-1729, respectively. The “Restoration” Fop appeared in the 1660s and continues until 1700. Here is one book that can assist in one’s search: “The Restoration Fop -Gender Boundaries and Comic Characterization in Later Seventeenth Century Drama (Salzburg University Studies) - by Andrew Publisher: Lewiston, N.Y. : E. Mellen, 1995. ISBN: 077344193X DDC: 822.409352 LCC: PR698 Allow me to be frank at the commencement; You will not like me...™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Syren Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 *curtsies* Thank you. Well I read alot and Beau Brummell has always fascinated me with how he could dictate who was the creme of the ton and if he did not like you could ruin you just by how you were dressed. Brumell Or this is intresting Fops http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Dara286/trident01-11.png If you got a dream chase it, cause a dream won't chase you back...(Cody Johnson Till you Can't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 The most simple definition of a gentleman and one that seems to be most recognized over the years is a man that does work, especially with his hands... which has little to do with good manners, how one dresses etc. Yes it seems that gentlemen did have their own rules regarding such but that would have been drilled into them from birth, so by the time they were adults it would have been second nature... Officers are the exception, but then again, they don't work, they lead... after all the riff raff of the time would have been lost without their guidance and intelligence, and all chaos would have broken out on the field of battle without them to make suggestions... officers and gentlemen never give orders.. that is for the working class. Remember that was the mind set... Fops on the other hand, seem to have taken everything to the extreme and they were not practicing homosexuals... at least not openly like the Mollies Club individuals were. Mary Astell wrote: "His glass (mirror) is he oracle that resolves all his mighty doubts and scruples. He examines and refreshes his complexion by it, and is more dejected at a pimple, than if it were a cancer. When his eyes are set to a languishing air, his motion all prepar'd according to art, his wig and his coat abundantly power'd, his gloves essenc'd, and his handkerchief pefum'd and all the rest of his bravery rightly adjusted, the greatest part of the day, as well as the business of it at home, is over; 'tis time to launch, and down he comes, scented like a perfumers shop, and looks like a vessel with all her rigging under sail without ballast. A chair is brought within the door, for he apprehends every breath of air as if it were a hurricane." Misson wrote: "These gentlemen in English are call'd fops and beaux. The play-house, chocolate-houses, and park in spring, perfectly swarm with them: Their whole business is to hunt after new fashions. They are creatures compounded of a perriwig and a coat laden with powder as white as miller's, and a face besmear'd with snuff, and a few affected airs." They were all the more remarkable, Misson noted, because generally 'the Englishmen dress in a plain uniform manner." Even my black and silver court coat, would be considered plain by a fop. Tom Brown wrote: "There sits a beau like a fool in a frame, that dares not stir his head nor move his body for fear of incommoding his wig, ruffling his cravat, or putting his eyes or mouth out of order his maitre de dance set it in." Note maitre de dance... dancing master... sometimes rules of deportment were included in the dancing manuals of the times. Waller: "Whatever his nationality, a fop was likely to invite shouts of 'French dog!' as he walked down the street. Now think about it... here is a time where lace handkerchiefs were a sign of wealth... you didn't use them, just carried them... perfumes were used to hide the smells of every day bad body oder or the stink of the cities themselves... not only fops carried perfumed items to bury their noses in to help stave away the stench... lace, embroidery, ribbons were not just a chick thing, they were the height of fashion in the early GAoP for men, ruffles at wrists and throat as well.. velvet coats, silks, etc for the upper classes and nobility...so in order for the fops to stand out amongst the others of their class, they truly must have been over the top with their actions regarding all that they did. "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Tar Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 We hav fops t'day... er.. Metro sexual I believe. Plucked eyebrows, a bit o' eye liner and has a subscription t' GQ. Chases fashion an not always gay. Gents whose wardrobes include Armani an Dolce & Gabbana labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald Killingsworth Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share Posted June 27, 2007 Thank you, Captain Sterling for the enlightening addition to the thread. Jacky Tar does state an interesting fact on the evolution of the Fop throughout history. Mostly influenced, I dare say, by literature and theater. But then I thought, when did become part of literature and theater? I took a look and found that the first appearance of a fop was in the restoration comedy called, The Relapse. The date of the play is 1696 and was written by John Vanbrugh. Colley Cibber played the luxuriant Fop, “Lord Foppington” in the play. Perhaps that is were the term Fop was derived from? I’ll have to look into this. Just think of all the other Fop-like characters there has been through literature! Sir Percy Blakeney in the Scarlet Pimpernel and Don Diego de la Vega in Zorro. The image of the Fop has come a long way! Allow me to be frank at the commencement; You will not like me...™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 All this Fop talk reminds me of the fops in Japanese Literature. Sometimes it amazes me how similar different cultures are. Of course it was read for a Japanese Literature course focusing on Love, gender, and sexuality. Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofferus the Red Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Do the fops here named use snuff, like proper fops? I smoke pipes myself, but have been thinking about purchasing snuff to flavour my pipe with, in the english fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Pete Straw Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (First fop that says "la" gets ter taste the brunt O' me blunderbuss....) ...um... -- can't resist -- .... la "He's a Pirate dancer, He dances for money, Any old dollar will do... "He's a pirate dancer, His dances are funny... 'Cuz he's only got one shoe! Ahhrrr!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 OI! WHAT WAS THAT PETE?? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 BOOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Tar Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I was goin' t' tease Patrick, but I remembered his flintlocks really work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Oh PiP is going to be a SPLENDID event!! "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hester Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Just think of all the other Fop-like characters there has been through literature! Sir Percy Blakeney in the Scarlet Pimpernel and Don Diego de la Vega in Zorro. The image of the Fop has come a long way! Hi, Reggie: I'm really enjoying reading this thread. And let's not forget the modern image of the Fop in popular music either: "The pretty things are going to hell, They wore it out, but they wore it well." "I'm the dandy highwayman who you're too scared to mention, I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Tar Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 If yer goin' t' be a fop in this pub, ye better hav the skill or muscle t' back it up. Wouldn't want t' be on either receivin' end o' Patricks blunderbuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald Killingsworth Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 (Reggie pauses to take in the portraits Hester has presented to the chat…starts to giggle like a fool) Yes, YES! I do think you have something there. I think if we had seen David Boyee in a peruke during the 1970s we would have thought him mad, but he led the way for Kiss and the “Glam” fashion too. I wonder what would have happened if Adam Ant wore Rhinegraves instead of leather pants? Allow me to be frank at the commencement; You will not like me...™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 And don't forget the Prince of Fops... "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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