Period correct Longboat specs

[Fox]

This seems to be the place for stuff like this...

In mid-January I acquired a 27' Montague Whaler, and the last two months have been spent fixing her up and converting her to look like the Golden Hind's longboat, and of course a piratical craft.

Launching at sunset in Brixham harbour.

A bit sorry for herself, but in her new home.

The first major job was to replace the rowlocks (which were in a bad state anyway) with something more historically appropriate

...Then a coat or three of paint to make her fit her surroundings better.

Ordinarily I wouldn't worry about having an engine on a boat, but since this one came with its original engine (a gorgeous if enormous 1950s Enfield) it made sense to keep the engine, but replace its housing...

... with this.

The mast goes up.

And the sail.

I'd taken her out for a couple of trials under oar and sail, but at Easter she had her first proper outing as a pirate boat. Here she is shown with four oars, single banked.

And four (shorter) oars, double banked.

[Capt. Sterling]

Thanks Foxe, pictures are much appreciated. Best of success with her.

[Coastie04]

In an earlier post, Queen Mary's Barge was mentioned for being a period example, but no pictures were available. The following images are from the website below:

http://nationalhistoricships.org.uk/index....vref/1860/pic/1

The surprising thing is that this barge was last used as recently as 1919! It does look a little different than the 18th century longboats. The first thing I though of when seeing this was viking longboats. Might there be some influence, or am I just seeing things? Either way, it originally had 10 oars and a green and gold canopy (though that was probably just in the royal barges and possibly for a couple special occasions such as funerals).

Coastie

[Capt. Sterling]

Thanks Coastie... nice find... and every little bit helps!!

[capn'rob]

Capt. Enigma brought up a point that I forgot to mention before. The long boats were the work horses of the day, much like a Hummer in the army today. It would be configured to it's purpose. I've seen the boats rigged with between 1 and three masts, and the masts can be stepped in multiple places. So, the masts could be stepped around whatever cargo they were carrying. I've seen an engraving before of a long boat loaded with supplies nearly all the way up the single foremast, one person on top of the cargo with a pair of oars, one person on the rudder, and a single stays'l by the bow. Obviously, if the long boats are being used to tow a becalmed ship, they wouldn't even worry about stepping the masts. They also were employed to carry cannons or swivel guns as well. Below are a few pictures from a google search of long boats in different configurations. Many are from http://www.privateer...boats/boats.htm, which also has specs of size for them, as well as many more small boats from the 17th-19th Centuries

Coastie

I wanted to comment on the first vessel shown in this collection of Longboats. This is a more specific design and had one purpose, the hunting of Whale. They were built with just enough strength to hold the six men, 5 to row and an officer to steer, and the gear needed to make fast, tire and kill a whale weighing up to and over 20 tons! They were built, for the most part, of steam bent oak frames, carvel planked in cedar except the sheer strake and one below it which were lapped and of mahogony for strength. The cedar was to keep the boat light. Since there was an uneven number of oars they were of different lengths to keep equal pull on both sides. They had a sailing rig, generally a sprits'l rig but, as the photo shows, they could get quite advanced. I believe the simpler rigs were the most likeky used as they were brought down prior to striking the iron to the whale. Once sailed or rowed close to the whale, they would make the last distance using paddles. These made less noise than an oar in an oarlock or thole pin. Whales have very good hearing and good eyesight except they can't see behind them. In addition to the men, the sail and the oars and paddles there were two tubs a flaked out line of 100 fathom in the primary tub and a little less in the secondary. There were several harpoons and killing lances, a marker flag identifying the ship to claim the whale and continue hunting. There were casks containing drinking water, ship's bisket and some candles. Designed at the end of the 18th century, it was The Fastest Thing Built by Man until the invention of the train! The speeds hit in a "Nantucket Sleighride" were probably 40 mph or higher. Nothing faster on earth.

The ship is the "Charles W. Morgan" of New Bedford, Ma. She is the last of the thousand or so wooden whaling ships built to persue that trade. She is presently out of the water at Mystic Seaport Museum in the beginning of a four year restoration. The Trustees of the Museum announced this Fall that upon completion of the project the "Morgan" would sail once more!

My first visit to this ship was in 1954 with my parents and brother. At that time the ship was in the water but secured in gravel. When you were aboard of her she was as steady as the buildings. The grandson of the man who put the gravel there, took it away in the 70s. The first time I was aboard of her and she hove down with some wind in her spanker, it was like she was once more alive! I'm thrilled about this project and plan to follow it closely. All the Best to me Bretheren and Sisters of the Code, Dutch "X" his mark

[MarkG]

Anyone have proper building specs for a period correct longboat? GAoP time frame. IF so please post. The Archangel crewe is ready to build. Thanks.

Check the book The Mayflower and Other Colonial Vessels by William Baker. His shallop plans could be scale down at a longboat. The Mayflower's longboat looks a lot like the shallop except smaller. Baker based his shallop plans on Dutch open boats from the first half of the 17th century.

The Smithsonian might have plans for the shallop.

Mark

[Master Sully]

I wish Santa would drop $7,000 down someone's chimney for this baby!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Whitehall-Spirit-17-Rowboat_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230464bb1fQQitemZ150397565727QQptZOtherQ5fBoats

[Le Loup]

This seems to be the place for stuff like this...

In mid-January I acquired a 27' Montague Whaler, and the last two months have been spent fixing her up and converting her to look like the Golden Hind's longboat, and of course a piratical craft.

Launching at sunset in Brixham harbour.

A bit sorry for herself, but in her new home.

The first major job was to replace the rowlocks (which were in a bad state anyway) with something more historically appropriate

...Then a coat or three of paint to make her fit her surroundings better.

Ordinarily I wouldn't worry about having an engine on a boat, but since this one came with its original engine (a gorgeous if enormous 1950s Enfield) it made sense to keep the engine, but replace its housing...

... with this.

The mast goes up.

And the sail.

I'd taken her out for a couple of trials under oar and sail, but at Easter she had her first proper outing as a pirate boat. Here she is shown with four oars, single banked.

And four (shorter) oars, double banked.

Beautiful craft and great pics, thanks for sharing.

Regards, Le Loup.

[Red Cat Jenny]

Found this recently..interesting

Cockboat, wherry, joliwat, shallop, great boat, longboat, barge, yawl, cutter, launch, skiff, pinnace, galley, gig, jolly boat, whaleboat, dinghy, and even an early life boat . . . All were types of boats carried by ships at one time or another under different names by different nations. They were equipped with gaffsails, lateen sails, lugsails, spritsails and even square sails carried on one or two masts. A ship's coxswain was a man of no small skill because he had to be able to rig and maintain the ship's boats no matter what type they might be. Some boats were in general service among the various navies, some were used only for specific purposes and some were carried in place of authorized equipment.

In the early 17th century, boats were generally towed behind the ship. This had some peril associated since the boats could damage each other or break their tethers and disappear unnoticed. In the second half of the century, boats began to be stowed on-board. The French would remove the thwarts and nest smaller boats inside larger ones so that all three boats normally carried on a ship of the period could fit into the space of one. The Spanish, amongst other nations, took to this practice as well. The English, however, believed that making the thwarts removable weakened the boat. They did, however, use the practice of turning a smaller boat upside down and placing it in a larger boat. As they added more boats to the inventory of a ship, the British were forced to find a way to accommodate them. In the second quarter of the 18th century, they built gangways on either side of the waist that connected the quarterdeck to the forecastle. Booms, comprised of spare spars and masts, were then stretched from the forecastle to a support called the gallows which was erected just in front of the mainmast. The largest boat, the longboat, launch, or barge, was cradled directly on the deck, possibly with a small skiff inverted and stored atop. Then the pinnace or other boat was stowed on the "boat booms" with possibly another boat stored atop. Prior to battle the boats were hoisted out and towed astern on a towing harness and tether. If left in the waist they would become a major source of splinters and captains would often order their gunners to fire at boats still shipped.

The long boat was just that. It was the largest and most heavily built boat carried by a ship. Some longboats were monsters. A longboat 52 feet in length was carried by the Prince in 1618 although not stowed on-board. The Sovereign of the Seas carried a longboat 50 feet 10 inches long. Longboats were generally scaled to the ship they served with one-third to one half the length of the ship's keel providing the size for the boat. Longboats gradually reduced in size until by the mid 18th century, longboats rarely exceeded 36 feet, averaging 32, and carried a crew of about 30 men. The longboat was generally equipped with a single mast and bowsprit which could be removed for stowage. It was usually cutter rigged with a mainsail, foresail, and jib. The reason for the long boat's size has to do with her original purpose which was to, "carry forth and weigh the sheet anchor." To do this, the longboat was equipped with a small windlass and had a movable davit at the stern. The longboat was a general utility boat. It was used for carrying landing parties, cutting out parties, watering parties along with a large number of water casks, and ferrying a large variety of supplies from the shore to the ship. As the main utility boat, it had to be able to operate in any weather under sail or oars.One use of ships boats that emerged in the 18th century was as a gunboat and patrol boat. The arming of ships boats prior to the 18th century was restricted to small arms and sometimes a musketoon placed in the bows. In the 18th century, the ship's longboat and launch were fitted with swivel guns and rowed around the ship in foreign ports to prevent desertions and to protect the ship. These swivels also made the longboat and launch more effective in supporting landing or cutting out operations. In 1737, the Centurion, operating off the coast of Africa, mounted 4 swivels on her longboat and the Burford and Suffolk each mounted six swivels on their launches

[capn'rob]

Found this recently..interesting

Cockboat, wherry, joliwat, shallop, great boat, longboat, barge, yawl, cutter, launch, skiff, pinnace, galley, gig, jolly boat, whaleboat, dinghy, and even an early life boat . . . All were types of boats carried by ships at one time or another under different names by different nations. They were equipped with gaffsails, lateen sails, lugsails, spritsails and even square sails carried on one or two masts. A ship's coxswain was a man of no small skill because he had to be able to rig and maintain the ship's boats no matter what type they might be. Some boats were in general service among the various navies, some were used only for specific purposes and some were carried in place of authorized equipment.

In the early 17th century, boats were generally towed behind the ship. This had some peril associated since the boats could damage each other or break their tethers and disappear unnoticed. In the second half of the century, boats began to be stowed on-board. The French would remove the thwarts and nest smaller boats inside larger ones so that all three boats normally carried on a ship of the period could fit into the space of one. The Spanish, amongst other nations, took to this practice as well. The English, however, believed that making the thwarts removable weakened the boat. They did, however, use the practice of turning a smaller boat upside down and placing it in a larger boat. As they added more boats to the inventory of a ship, the British were forced to find a way to accommodate them. In the second quarter of the 18th century, they built gangways on either side of the waist that connected the quarterdeck to the forecastle. Booms, comprised of spare spars and masts, were then stretched from the forecastle to a support called the gallows which was erected just in front of the mainmast. The largest boat, the longboat, launch, or barge, was cradled directly on the deck, possibly with a small skiff inverted and stored atop. Then the pinnace or other boat was stowed on the "boat booms" with possibly another boat stored atop. Prior to battle the boats were hoisted out and towed astern on a towing harness and tether. If left in the waist they would become a major source of splinters and captains would often order their gunners to fire at boats still shipped.

The long boat was just that. It was the largest and most heavily built boat carried by a ship. Some longboats were monsters. A longboat 52 feet in length was carried by the Prince in 1618 although not stowed on-board. The Sovereign of the Seas carried a longboat 50 feet 10 inches long. Longboats were generally scaled to the ship they served with one-third to one half the length of the ship's keel providing the size for the boat. Longboats gradually reduced in size until by the mid 18th century, longboats rarely exceeded 36 feet, averaging 32, and carried a crew of about 30 men. The longboat was generally equipped with a single mast and bowsprit which could be removed for stowage. It was usually cutter rigged with a mainsail, foresail, and jib. The reason for the long boat's size has to do with her original purpose which was to, "carry forth and weigh the sheet anchor." To do this, the longboat was equipped with a small windlass and had a movable davit at the stern. The longboat was a general utility boat. It was used for carrying landing parties, cutting out parties, watering parties along with a large number of water casks, and ferrying a large variety of supplies from the shore to the ship. As the main utility boat, it had to be able to operate in any weather under sail or oars.One use of ships boats that emerged in the 18th century was as a gunboat and patrol boat. The arming of ships boats prior to the 18th century was restricted to small arms and sometimes a musketoon placed in the bows. In the 18th century, the ship's longboat and launch were fitted with swivel guns and rowed around the ship in foreign ports to prevent desertions and to protect the ship. These swivels also made the longboat and launch more effective in supporting landing or cutting out operations. In 1737, the Centurion, operating off the coast of Africa, mounted 4 swivels on her longboat and the Burford and Suffolk each mounted six swivels on their launches

That certainly spells it out! My vessel, "Patience" was a prototype. Called a "Mini Ship 34" because she has a "boat deck". Her layout is such that the salon and cockpit are under a long run coachtop leaving ample room for dinghy storage. In a 34' boat, this can generally be a pain. Do you tow it, rig davits or deflate it? The only change I see in this boat is a tabernakled mast with a boom rather than the side davit that she now has. The mast gives place for steadying/getyouhome sail, radar and crowsnest. That's down the list! Oh! The name of the Dinghy on "Patience", it's "Imp-Patience"! Capn'Rob

[callenish gunner]

Why are actual plans for these boats like Yetis? You hear of sightings, but are they available? I have looked for the past 4-5 years and the only thing I found was somebody who wanted $300+ for a set, but you couldn't see them first to make sure that they were what I wanted. I felt like I was looking for the Holy Grail ...and some huckster was going to sell me a styrofoam cup!

[Bos'n Cross]

callenish you couldnt be farther from the truth.....it would seem that period boat plans a not but a pipe dream! I iv been able to notice...is that the few groups that have small period craft..........usually seem to have a shipwight make up the plans........whether its one of the explorers(john smiths shallop replicas) or just a longboat for one of our larger tall ships....everyone seems to just build them.......

[callenish gunner]

Well shipwrights are a trifle scarce in the mountains of northern PA. I'm looking for plans with authentic lines and proportions. I don't feel comfortable drawing them up myself not at least with some guidelines to follow; I mean I think I could adapt to length or beam.

[Bos'n Cross]

im attempting to learn from our shipwright on luna(bless him) and our own dutchman......but i think itll take years before im able to make something myself..........getting the lines and shape down seems to be the hardest thing.......

[callenish gunner]

Yeah! I'm looking for something about 16-20 ft. and able to have double man oar positions 5-6 ft beam...not nearly as big as the Explorer

[Bos'n Cross]

same here......id actually like a sailing batteau...similar to this one built at fort ticonderoga.......one day...

[WilliamKing]

Another name for what is commonly referred to as a longboat is a launch. I should definately recommend to you the "Frigate's Boat" designed by Paul Fisher of Selway Fisher. The Historical Maritime Society of the UK and the group to which I belong are both invested in this design. HMS's 'Blue Launch' is already in the water and can be seen on YouTube and thier website. Ours is still under construction due to hiccups in funding.

I may also recommend you the book The Boats of Men of War by W.E. May - available on Amazon. It is a wealth of information and has many drawings from which you may derive plans etc.

I hope this helps.

WRK

[WilliamKing]

Oh and I almost forgot - Chapman has several drawings in his Navalis Mercatoria - also available from Amazon.

With respect to actual plan sets, unless the design is modern or re-drawn the drawings in Chapman, May and Chappelle - coupled with a firm knowledge of boatbuilding techniques - may be your only recourse. And the former almost never yields historically accurate designs, favoring simplified construction and improved longevity instead.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

WRK