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Those pesky Spaniards at it again...


JoshuaRed

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:lol:  

Too funny -- even hundreds of years after the GAOP, Spain still can't stand to see anyone else with their gold! Apparently everyone got the "Finders Keepers" memo except them....

BBC News -- Spain To Sue Over Treasure Find

Perhaps you shoulda read the article you posted:

However, there have also been rumours that it was found off Spain.
Spanish media have reported that Odyssey Marine Exploration vessels had been seen with flags denoting they were undertaking marine research in Spanish waters in recent months.

If the wreck was in Spanish waters, it does of course belong to Spain.

Too funny, indeed. ;)

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"The floggings will continue until morale improves!"

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I wonder which country spain used as slaves .,to rape and rob to get this gold. Spain loves treasure even more than I..., They are pirates.

I am not Lost .,I am Exploring.

"If you give a man a fire, he will be warm for a night, if you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life!"

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Perhaps you shoulda read the article you posted:

QUOTE

However, there have also been rumours that it was found off Spain.

QUOTE

Spanish media have reported that Odyssey Marine Exploration vessels had been seen with flags denoting they were undertaking marine research in Spanish waters in recent months.

If the wreck was in Spanish waters, it does of course belong to Spain.

C'mon...Why would I post something without reading it? It's only RUMOURED to be off Spain. I just thought it was a fun little twist in this developing saga...

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This of course only makes me more curious to know where it came from, and what they believe is the identity of the ship! :D

"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain

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A Spanish court has issued a warrant for the capture and search of two American exploration ships suspected of removing sunken treasure from Spanish waters.

Who controls the waters around Gibraltar

The ships, belonging to Odyssey Marine Exploration, which is based in Florida, are docked in Gibraltar and cannot leave because Spain controls the waters surrounding the British enclave.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...07/wship107.xml

Uppity Madrid poofters, obviously they'll need a broadside or three of 18 pound shot.

Dances for nickels.

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  • 1 month later...

Spain releases US treasure-hunt ship

A US treasure-hunting ship intercepted and searched by Spanish police investigating a mysterious haul of riches has been cleared to leave port.

The Ocean Alert is owned by a company in Miami which recently raised a record haul of silver coins from a shipwreck.

Spanish authorities suspect the discovery might have been made in their territorial waters.

But Gibraltar disputes the claim, saying the ship had been boarded in international waters.

The Ocean Alert was stopped and boarded by Spanish police after leaving the British colony last Thursday.

It was then escorted to the Spanish port of Algeciras, where crew members were searched and computer equipment confiscated.

Acting on the orders of a judge, the police were hoping to pinpoint the location of a shipwreck which in May yielded half a million silver coins, worth $500m (£244m).

Diplomatic dispute

The salvage company has refused to say where it made the haul - which was promptly transported to the United States.

Initial speculation held that it was found off the coast of Cornwall in south-west England. But the BBC's Steve Kingstone in Madrid says some politicians there suspect the mysterious wreck is of Spanish origin, or was found in Spanish territorial waters.

Neither the police nor the vessel's American owners - Odyssey Marine Exploration - will confirm what, if anything, was found during the Spanish search. But the answer is probably very little, our correspondent says.

The American crew of the Ocean Alert were expecting to be stopped and even had a lawyer on board, he says.

It is understood that some confiscated items, including computer hard drives, have yet to be returned.

.

The dispute became a three-way diplomatic incident when Britain complained to the Spanish foreign ministry, arguing that Madrid did not have the right under shipping laws to intercept a vessel in international waters.

For now, the Ocean Alert remains in Algeciras and is expected to leave port after completing routine paperwork.

Spain has launched legal action over the treasure and the wreck.

But some experts believe it to be the Merchant Royal, an English ship carrying stolen Spanish treasure which sank in 1641.

US coin expert Dr Lane Brunner has said there is evidence the shipwreck was found off England's Cornish coast. Odyssey has kept the location of its find secret, citing security and legal reasons.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6903807.stm

Dances for nickels.

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  • 2 months later...

U.S. ship held in $500M booty row

Spain has again seized an American treasure-hunting ship over a dispute with its owners over who has rights to millions of dollars worth of booty recovered from the sea, officials said.

Spain seized the "Odyssey Explorer" -- owned by Odyssey Marine Exploration based Tampa, Florida -- as it sailed out of port in the British colony of Gibraltar on Tuesday.

More here.

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"The floggings will continue until morale improves!"

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bluidy thieves B)

Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service

Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench

First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire

Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string

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Apparently everyone got the "Finders Keepers" memo except them....

The "Finders Keepers" rule causes big problems for archaeologists. When someone plunders a wreck - and almost certainly this is what Odyssey is doing - they do not record the provenience of the material. In that case, there is *much* less archaeological value to the artifacts than there could have been. Even salvors who say they do archaeological work very very rarely publish their findings in a journal.

Archaeological sites are a non-renewable resource. We don't say that "finders keepers" should be the rule with air, water, or trees... why should it be the case with cultural resources?

Don't buy from salvors. Don't buy archaeological artifacts period.

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The "Finders Keepers" rule causes big problems for archaeologists.

Well if it's THAT important to the arkies why didn't they go looking for it first? :huh: Kidding. KIDDING...

No, I don't like the idea of priceless history being auctioned off piecemeal either. Not at all. However I also feel the pain of these explorer/salvage co's. who do all the years of research and legwork to find a wreck only to have states, governments or countries yank it away. And yet all too often none of those powers that be ever lifted a finger or spent a dime to locate those "priceless national treasures" themselves. They just sit around waiting for someone else to do it, then suddenly leap into action to enforce the laws.

Whatever. All I can really hope is that more private marine salvage co's will follow Barry Clifford's lead and keep excavated wreck collections whole and intact, like the Whydah.

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More frequently, it's the whole money aspect. There are lots of archaeological sites that are just waiting to be done, but for lack of funding. So then a salvor comes along, takes it, and sells it off, because they can afford to. Sucks.

And while Clifford's exhibit on Whydah is neat in that it lets people see the artifacts, a nice term for the excavation thereof is "indelicate". Whydah is sort of an interesting case in that the conservation exhibit is very cool and the actual recovery/site plan was so uncool.

(disclaimer here, I haven't actually seen the Whydah exhibit. I'm going by Capelotti's review in Public Historian about the Boston version. I know nothing about the Tampa version. That said, the recovery of the artifacts was still... "indelicate".)

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It must always be kept in mind that NONE of these recoveries would be made at all without some heavy funding from investors. Investors will not provide funding without a reasonable expectation of a return on their investment, and their return comes from the sale of artifacts. Investors usually don't support pure archaelogical endeavors. Just some cold, hard facts of life, Boys and Girls....

However, I believe proper documentation should be done if practical, (which it often isn't due to circumstances of depth, condition of the site etc.), and a certain percentage of the "goodies" should be reserved for display in museums. If government entities did not get so greedy about things that they made no effort to discover or recover, perhaps the secrecy would not be so much of a problem.

>>>> Cascabel

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Hmmm... I thought we was supposed ta be PYRATES kiddies. Condemning these fellers for doin what they do fer a livin? Quite the paradox. Seems that governments have enough money lying about to start wars and comit ethnic cleansing and genocide, but when it comes to lost treasure and research there is none to be had. Serves the dumb bastards right if it gets lost to the treasure hunters. I say they either put up the funds to get there first or suffer the loss without whimpering about it. Besides... how much do you think all the legal wrangling is going to cost the Spanish government? I'll bet it will be enough to have covered alot of the research that could have gone inot the academic study of the site. You snooze- you lose.

Bo

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The American crew of the Ocean Alert were expecting to be stopped and even had a lawyer on board, he says.

Piracy in the 21st Century:

Captain, "Mr. Gibbon I see a fat slow Spaniard, I do."

Gibbon, "That be true Cap'n"

Captain, "Hoist the Jolly Roger and uncase the lawyer. Give'em a writ dead amidships!"

Lawyer, "Under sub provision three of International Law, the afore mentioned Spaniard is here-by ordered to cease and desist under penalty of....."

Gibbon, "That did er! She be dead in the water and lower'in her colors!"

Captain, "Grapple her lads! Boarders away!"

Lawyer, "Captain, make sure the men have all signed releases, boarding a ship at sea is highly hazardous and there are certain liabilities to be considered."

Captain, "Gibbon you fool! Recase that dang blasted Lawyer before I heave him over the side!"

Gibbon "Aye Captain."

Ok, kidding aside, when I did a tour with NATO in Bosnia in 2000 we had to raid an illegal Bosnian Serb TV station. The raid went like this; the perimeter was surrounded with two (2) mechanized infantry companies. We had a platoon of tanks providing covering fire from an opposing ridged line. There were Apache gunships on call if the tanks couldn’t handle the situation as it developed. If need be further air support from fast movers was possible. The raid started and our assault track roared to the front door of the TV station. It dropped its ramp and a squad of soldiers providing security piled out. Then with everything in place from the back of the track our Lawyer walked out and served a cease and desist order on the operator of the TV station. Sad but true, our primary weapon was actually a lawyer!

Their having a lawyer on board was actually a pretty good idea IMO, but what a world we have today.

-Greydog

Why am I sharing my opinion? Because I am a special snowflake who has an opinion of such import that it must be shared and because people really care what I think!

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  • 4 months later...

Mar 6, 6:52 PM EST

Explorers May Have to ID Shipwreck Find

By MITCH STACY

Associated Press Writer

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SHI...LTAM&SECTION=US

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- Deep-sea explorers who found a shipwreck last year yielding about $500 million in treasure might be forced to provide Spain their "best available hypothesis" on the ship's identity, a judge said Thursday.

An attorney for the Spanish government has complained that Odyssey Marine Exploration of Tampa has not complied with a judge's order to hand over enough information to determine if Spain has a claim to the 17 tons of colonial era coins salvaged from the wreck last year.

U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday wrote in his ruling that if Odyssey doesn't fully satisfy the order to hand over details of the wreck, the company will be forced to tell Spain the name of the ship the company suspects it has found.

Dances for nickels.

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  • 1 year later...

$140 bn, eh? What's the number for the 6th Fleet HQ?

http://www.globenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=169228

News articles released on Monday reported that Spain, a country that has opposed historic treasure salvage for many years, has ordered its navy to look for huge gold and silver reserves that were lost at sea in the 16th century. According to these reports, naval mine sweepers are set to commence radar and sonar surveys to attempt to locate shipwrecks on the seabed off the southern coast of Spain. The value of the gold and silver treasure, which is believed to include Inca and Aztec artifacts, is estimated at $140 billion dollars.

Dances for nickels.

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Odyssey has until today to file their appeal of the judge's ruling... stay tuned

http://www.barcelonareporter.com/index.php?/news/comments/odyssey_marine_exploration_has_until_july_21st_for_appeal_in_spain_treasure/

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