17th century bottles

[AllByMeOnesies]

An internet search and a library search have yielded little for me regarding when bottles and corks, etc. were manufactured and used. The Restoration London book says at that time liquor was not stored in bottles because there was no way to seal the bottles. I'm wondering in particular about the late 1600's for what I'm writing.

Anyone know of any good resources?

[Captain Jim-sib]

Ye be looking for the "onion" bottle. In POTC-I, when Sparrow & Miss Swan were on the the rum island, they were drinking from "onion" bottles. Kuddo's to Disney for their research. Two sources below to aid yer research (google "onion bottle, history" or "mallet bottle, history"). Pyrat Rum comes in a near onion shape if you need a modern faxsimilie

Best regards to ye.

Selling, but good pictures:

http://www.jamestownglasshouse.com/Reproduction4.asp

Good history of bottles:

http://www.airwreck.com/bottles/bottles.html

[Captain Jim]

Correct throughout the period is the onion bottle. Very late (1715 is the earliest reference I found) comes the Mallet bottle. I got my mallet from Smoke and Fire at PiP last year.

For more on bottles, go HERE.

[AllByMeOnesies]

Thanks, gents, good info. However, I'm still wondering about what sealed the bottles. Some of the pictures show cork but the Restoration book says "cork stoppers had not yet been developed." So what was used as a cap or stopper for bottles of the late 17th century? Were cork stoppers developed by, say, 1690?

[Capn_Enigma]

So what was used as a cap or stopper for bottles of the late 17th century?  Were cork stoppers developed by, say, 1690?

Till the late 17th century, wooden stoppers were used, soaked in (vegetable) oil and tightened with hemp wound around them.

The well known friar Dom Perignon found that stoppers like that were ejected from sparkling wine bottles and replaced them with cork stoppers in the 1680s. But cork stoppers became widely popular only in the late 18th century.

[Captain Jim-sib]

From google "cork stoppers, history"...the following links

http://www.corkfacts.com/contpges/histmain.htm

http://www.realcork.org/artigo.php?art=1

[AllByMeOnesies]

Till the late 17th century, wooden stoppers were used, soaked in (vegetable) oil and tightened with hemp wound around them.

Thankee. I was worried that having bottles in what I'm writing was historically inaccurate. Now I can sleep tonight.

[Mission]

PoD and I were just talking about corks - I thought they had them in the GAoP, but this suggests they didn't. Interesting. (I will still use cork myself, but it is interesting.)

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

The wreck of the LaBelle in 1687 (LaSalle's failed attempt to colonize at the mouth of the Mississippi) hase some threaded pewter bottle caps in the recovered artifacts. Check in the Shipyard thread for the links to the collection of artifacts from LaBelle.

Bo

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Had some time to kill waiting on laundry so i went and dug up the pewter bottle cap link:

http://corpuschristi.../05/pewter.html

Thought I should also include a description of the artifacts and how they were found and used:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Mhsna6ALFjgC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=La+Belle+artifacts+and+screw-on+bottle+caps&source=bl&ots=wa7OEBSeMC&sig=dbFtbtNMsa-9WZSfcqSh57IBXQg&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Enjoy.

Bo

Edited September 27, 2011 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

From wikipedia: " As late as the mid-17th century, French vintners did not use cork stoppers, using oil-soaked rags stuffed into the necks of bottles instead.^"

^{Here is good gallery of old bottles http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/pages/subcategory.asp?subcat_id=768&subcat_name=Wine+bottles}

Edited April 14, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[jendobyns]

I seem to remember this being covered in another thread not terribly long ago. Because I responded with information from an article by Ivor Noel Hume that isn't in this one. Any way to consolidate these?

Jen

[Mission]

Sure if they're both about the same thing, but you have to point me to the thread you're talking about.

There is one case where I don't think this is a good idea. Sometimes a topic about something generic (like glassware or period containers or some such thing) will contain a discussion about a specific item that fits into the broader topic (like 17th century bottles). In such cases, it doesn't make sense to combine them if the specific topic is focused and will stand alone. In this case, if you want to point someone to your post in the generic thread without having to recopy everything, you can link directly to your post.

You can do this by:

1. Clicking on the blue number in the upper-right corner of the your post (for example, for this post it appears as #13.)

2. A pop-up window will appear with a link to that post.

3. Copy the post link by pressing the CTRL+INS keys or right-click on your mouse and select 'copy.'

4. Respond to the topic you want to place the link into, typing appropriate text for the link, (such as "Here is a post that will explain all about how to link to post-specific text.")

5. Select the text you want to link and click the link button at the top of the edit window (it looks like a chain.)

6. Press SHIFT+INS or right-click -> 'paste' to paste the post location into the box.

Now when people click on that link, your post will appear to the top of the window.

[Mission]

From my research, cork stoppers absolutely existed during the golden age of piracy. They are are discussed in a wide variety of English cookbooks dating to the early 17th century (1609 is the earliest one I have, although there may be others). Not only that, there are references to corked amphora bottles from ancient Rome! They sort of disappeared during the Middle Ages and then reappeared some time in the 15th century when glass bottles began to gain favor. They would have been straight (not tapered like those you often see in old bottles) and hand cut. You can read more about them on this page of my medical containers article.

There are also a wide variety of bottle styles from this time period which include onion bottles. (I did not focus on onion bottles, but they were definitely around throughout the golden age of piracy from what I found.) Probably the most popular style of bottle found on shipwrecks from the 17th century is the case bottle, a square based, sloping side bottle packed in cases. (Thus the name.) The sloping sides made it easier to remove the bottle from the open molds they were made in. This style would have been ideal for transporting liquids that were shipped in bottles (as opposed to casks). Case bottles are usually made of green glass, which (oddly enough) can vary in hue from brown to green to blue. (I go into a lot of detail on period glass on this page of my article.) Case bottles would look like these: