Earrings? Help settle an argument

[the Royaliste]

Why men did things in court, and why men did things at sea are two vastly different views. With documentation, such as Drake in the 1500's, prove to me that seamen STOPPED wearing them. Just as sailors place coins under their masts to pay the ferryman after their demise, many wore earrings , some to ward off seasickness. Of course some of you need 'factoids' for proof, but sailors follow practices for centuries with out care for 'facts'..........Yes, there are coins under all masts on my vessels, and every other sailor I know. We seldom need 'proof', we are living it as always.

[Fox]

Maria, my point is that NOTHING pre 1880s relating to pirates is real - the whole lot was faked!

The pirate shipwrecks are not really pirate ships at all, Stevenson and Pyle found out about them and wrote the backgrounds... After all, the evidence of them being <i>pirate</i> wrecks is documentary...

As SS said, evidence of Tudor pirates, or other Tudor seamen wearing earrings is there, but it is not relevant to fashions a century later.

prove to me that seamen STOPPED wearing them.

Wrote the Royaliste:

By the late 18th century a RN captain was sufficiently surprised by one of his crew wearing an earring that he asked him if he was a woman. Therefore, by that time we can conclude that in general seamen HAD stopped wearing them, and they had not been fashionable for seamen in that Captain's lifetime (or at least his memory). At some point then between Drake and that Captain (I'm not at home, but I'll post his name if you want it later) seamen stoped wearing earrings, but the question is <i>when</i>?

Well lets look at the evidence: Around the second quarter of the 17th century earrings went out of fashion generally, by say 1650 they were rare. At about the same time the evidence for seamen of any sort wearing earrings also dries up. Coincidence?

For the late 17th/early 18th centuries you might find the odd bit of evidence relating to one odd seaman (or indeed pirate) wearing an earring, but it will probably be in the nature of an oddity. It IS fair to conclude, whatever the romanticists amongst you would like to believe that by the Golden Age of piracy the wearing of earrings by seamen had generally died out as a fashion.

Now, I'm sure someone is going to argue with all that I've just said, but the bottom line is that there is no evidence yet come to light for any kind of earring fashion amongst pirates during the Golden Age. If you want to prove that pirates were different from everyone else of the time then you have the burden of proof.

[the Royaliste]

By the late 18th century a RN captain was sufficiently surprised by one of his crew wearing an earring man. Therefore, by that time we can conclude that in general seamen HAD stopped wearing them, and they had not been fashionable for seamen in that Captain's lifetime (or at least his memory)    by say 1650 they were rare. At about the same time the evidence for seamen of any sort wearing earrings also dries up. Coincidence?

For the late 17th/early 18th centuries you might find the odd bit of evidence relating to one odd seaman (or indeed pirate) wearing an earring, but it will probably be in the nature of an oddity. out as a fashion.

One capt.s 'opinion', big ocean.......Your conclusion, not 'we'....general or fashionable have little to do with the life of the average seaman, only cobs under the flag of the RN, and the RN were the cops of their day, not the gospel.......'rare' and 'didn't' are very different concepts.........and lastly, as I mentioned, us sailors have little regard for a need to 'gather evidence'. This idea of 'burden of proof' is great for those non sailors. Any sailor with a history of sailing believes many a concept that has no basis in fact; it's what keeps us sailing ahead of all types of adversity, both natural and man-made. In other words, 'it all works for us'... :)

.....Besides, I have no interest is supportin' anything mentionin' pirate proof, just relayin' some very common observations by a lot of sailors who are also not stereotypical........we'll leave that to schoolgirls in plaid uni's, and and 'soldiers all in a row'.......seamen plied the waves right beside the stereotypes...be they simple mariners, merchants, or marine salvors........

[Hawkyns]

Well lets look at the evidence: Around the second quarter of the 17th century earrings went out of fashion generally, by say 1650 they were rare. At about the same time the evidence for seamen of any sort wearing earrings also dries up. Coincidence?

I think your date is slightly off, Foxe, but not by much. One of the factors seems to be the Interregnum of that bastard Cromwell. Royalist officers were still wearing earrings until the end of the Civil War. After the final defeat and the plunging of England into the Dark Ages of puritanism, the wearing of jewelry adornment by men (and women) goes out of style very quickly.

One thing here, though. Much of this seems to be based on England. Anybody know what the French and Dutch were doing at this time?

Hawkyns

Proud Royalist Officer of The King's Army, Sir Thomas Blackwell's Reg't

[the Royaliste]

One thing here, though.  Much of this seems to be based on England.  Anybody know what the French and Dutch were doing at this time?

Hawkyns

Proud Royalist Officer of The King's Army, Sir Thomas Blackwell's Reg't

Hawkyns...A family I grew up near, whose son was my best friend until 'Nam was of Italian heritage. I've seen photos, early daugerrotypes(sp), and painted portraits of their family all the way back to 16- somethin'.....all males received an earring at their 13th birthday.....quite a lot of seafarers in their line....all us kid's ran from his mom when she grabbed the needle every time one of us turned 13!......... ..........she caught me!

[Hawkyns]

I don't doubt it. Customs in different countries are widely divergent. We have a tendency to assume an English bias, but the Caribbean in the period was a mix of many cultures and nationalities. And when we expand that to the Indian Ocean, it would be nigh impossible to say that only one tradition or idea was held paramount.

Hawkyns

[JoshuaRed]

One other thought against the wearring of earrings I just had was that it seems foolish to wear a dangly bit of gold on yer ear in a fight or boarding...because it would be the first thing I would grab onto to rip out if I had a pirate rushing me. After all, ship fighting was VERY close quarters. One quick tug on the earring and even the toughest brute would be howling in pain, eyes watering up...giving me the chance to run you through...or run away.

[Matty Bottles]

I don't know. I remember I fight I had in high school where the other guy's earring accidentally get torn out, and he didn't even notice until later.

[JoshuaRed]

Yeah maybe you're right...an earring wouldn't hurt like a nose ring..or NIPPLE ring. :)

[Silver Steele]

One thing here, though. Much of this seems to be based on England. Anybody know what the French and Dutch were doing at this time?

Hawkyns

I have found a reference to an old Dutch Maritime law that stated that Dutch sailors must wear an earring to pay for their funeral. However, I can not find a source for Dutch Maritime law.

One other thing that I think we need to take into consideration that has not been mentioned. The rounding of the Horn. There's an old custom that was started, as far as I have found, back in the era of the clipper ships, when they sailed from the Atlantic to the Pacific during the gold rush in California. [Mid 1800's] However, in Richard Dana's "Two Year's Before The Mast" [1850's], there is no mention of an earring or tradition associated with rounding the Horn. But it is a well known tradition, and a well respected sign of a great sailor. There are only two sailors in the world, at this time, that have rounded the Horn more than ten times. They both live in Liverpool England.

[Fox]

Well, all I can say is that I'm quite happy to believe that the odd pirate (and other seaman) wore an earring or two during the Golden Age, but if you want me to believe that it was the fashion Pyle et al would have us believe you're going to have to do find some actual evidence.

Royaliste, just because you and your salty mates do something now it doesn't mean that pirates of the Golden Age did it. All traditions have to start sometime, I just believe (based on reasonable evidence) that the tradition of seamen wearing earrings (for whatever reason) post dates the Golden Age of piracy. And incidentally, I'm not such an infernal lubber as you take me for - I've got my sea-legs...

[Fox]

Oh, and Hawkyns, would that be Blackwell's Regt of the ECWSA? I used to be pretty friendly with quite a few people from Blackwell's in the ECWS in England.

[the Royaliste]

Royaliste, just because you and your salty mates do something now it doesn't mean that pirates of the Golden Age did it. All traditions have to start sometime, I just believe (based on reasonable evidence) that the tradition of seamen wearing earrings (for whatever reason) post dates the Golden Age of piracy. And incidentally, I'm not such an infernal lubber as you take me for - I've got my sea-legs...

No truck with that, mate..But, just because the Royal Navy did something or other, whenever thru history, really doesn't mean a lot as far as the rest of the sailing world at any given time. I have been told you are quite the RN buff; not my cup 'o tea, (aye, we threw it in the harbor) Many countries and individuals had their own interpretations of world domination. Also, n'er said a word about your sealegs, just the 'purely historical' angle, which doesnt parallel any sailors I know on this side of the pond. Fair Winds, may history serve you well, it does me just fine. I'm hoping for a few really grand reenactments in the next few years, hop aboard, show us wot ye'er made of!!...

[Hawkyns]

Oh, and Hawkyns, would that be Blackwell's Regt of the ECWSA? I used to be pretty friendly with quite a few people from Blackwell's in the ECWS in England.

No, Sir. ECWS We were 3rd company, here in the US. Strictly on a regimental level, JT and the KA weren't real amenable to crossing the pond. So we played mostly over here, and occasionally came to the UK to join with the rest of the regiment.

Things are slow at the moment. English Civil War is in a downturn since the end of the 350th. I'm doing more Elizabethan living history than ECW at the moment.

Hawkyns

[Fox]

Royaliste, well that's ok then

Actually, the RN seaman of that period can be taken as a typical seaman, for the simple reason that men were only attached to a ship for the duration of the voyage (with the exception of standing officers, bosun etc) so when a particular voyage finished the crew would often go back to their other trades as coasters or merchantmen, even fishermen and watermen, it's an interesting fact and often overlokoed. Anyway, I'm not trying to grind an axe so fair winds to you, and if you fancy coming and pirating this side of the pond drop me a line.

Hawkyns, that's very interesting. My personaly opinion of JT is not a good one (is anyone's these days?), for reasons too long to go into here I feel that he badly let me and my friends and comrades down a few years ago and I have very little time for him. And yes, there's very little ECW re-enactment going on over here these days - that's not quite true but it has taken a serious downturn. I think in part it's to do with the end of the 350th anniversary, but it's also a lot to do with the politics of the situation as well.

["Broadside" Long]

A 1588 portrait of Sir Walter Raleigh clearly shows him wearing an earring in his left ear.  In addition, a 1583 portrait of Sir Francis Drake shows what appears to be a gold hoop in his left ear as well.  Both of these men were illustrious mariners, so I believe that it is entirely plausible that pirates wore earrings. 

Broadside at the end of the 16th century and a little into the 17th, it was the style for men to wear earrings. And yes there are accounts of Drake wearing earrings at court. Unfortunately men wearing earrings went out of style in the early to mid 17th century and virtually all accounts of men wearing earrings disappeared.

That came to mind right after I posted. Those portraits were obviously not made aboard ship, so I guess there is no way to prove if Drake or Raleigh wore earrings at sea. Also, I was thinking that it may have been a fashion during that period that went out of style by the time of the Golden Age. Oh well.

Cheers,

Broadside

[Longarm]

Might the belief in a sailor wearing a earring to pay for his funeral coinside with the belief in placeing coins over the eyes of someone who died to pay the ferryman? I'm not a scholar by any means but this practice continued long after christianty came into being and the belief of a ferryman that carries the soul into the afterlife, fell out of favor.

I wonder if this question can ever truely be answered to everyones saticfaction. Sailors and pirates are not known for their writings and documentation skills, with the exception of the ships log. But these tend to be short and to the point with concerns of the weather, tides, currents, and anyother matters having to do with the direct operation and safety of the ship and crew. No one wrote about who was wearing what or how so in so looks terrible in that color, or that that outfit is out of date and makes what,s hisname look fat.

Customes, fashions, fads and superstitions come and go, and can change from one year to the next or, even from one individual to another. Who can really keep track of all the changes and differences that are happening all around them all the time? But, healthy debate can educate and strengthen the mind so not knowing can sometimes be a good thing.

[FannyFae]

I can actually buy the explanation of sailors believing that it improved eyesight. One of the things that I have studied extensively as an herbalist and in particular my specialty, Ayurveda. which comes from India. I have been studying ts connection to the Middle East and points onward is that the piercing of ears, noses, etc. all have a tie-in to bodily health. In acupuncture, and its predecessor, Ayurvedic medicine, depending upon which point is pierced, helps stimulate a bodily response that does enhance health.

Also, unrelated but yet related sort of, women in India (and elsewhere) pierce their left nostril - it is tied into creativity / creation and fertility, as well as enhancing her femininity. ;-)

Acupuncture works, so hey, if it worked, I am sure a pirate might be an easy adapter of similar customs during the era.

[Fox]

Personally, I've always inclined against the idea that it was to pay for a funeral (despite SS's assertions about Dutch Law), principally because of the relative difference in cost between an earring and a funeral. To pay for even a basic funeral with an earring you'd have to have a bloomin big one or a lot of them.

[Silver Steele]

I think it would be more to pay for the "box" or canvas that they would be buried in (if one at all) and the minister's fee, than an actual formal funeral.

[Rumba Rue]

Had to get into this conversation here.

I bought a book when I was in Canada, "Pirates and Outlaws of Canada-1610- to 1932", by Harold Horwood and Ed Butts. It's a new book just out last year, I'll be doing a review of it for NQG in the future.

Anyway, on page 97, there is an old drawing of a ship that was processing cod, and the caption underneath states:

In case they were killed, sailors wore a gold earring to pay their debts and funeral costs.

Now I'm sure not every sailor could wear an earring at all, but I think those that did, were making a decent living on the high seas, whether it be in piracy or general seamen. It would also depend on the country in which the person came from that might dictate if an earring was worn or not.

Rumba Rue

** **

[blackjohn]

Ok, I can't hold back any longer... does anyone here really think pirates cared about what happened to their bodies after death??? To me, the notion seems antithetical to their beliefs.

[corsair2k3]

Greetings,

I've seen references to great displays of irreligiousity on the part of some pirates.

Others, however, were another story.

As far as society as a whole, however, the question of a proper burial was a matter of great importance.

One of the reasons gibbetting was viewed with horror by the general public was that many believed that if one's body were not laid to rest in a consecrated grave, one's soul would be doomed to wander.

Regards,

The Corsair

[Longarm]

Many a pirate might show his irregiousy at sea but quite few found religion when faceing the hangman.

Sailing also seemed to be a family tradition. If ones grandfather was a sailor and he wore an earring, chances are when ones father went to sea he to wore an earring, maybe the same earring. So following family tradition the next generation would go to sea and wear an earring, forgetting why it was worn in the first place, and wearing it because that's just what sailors in the family did. This is just a theory and, it still depends on the country and culture the sailor came from.

[Fox]

I think it would be more to pay for the "box" or canvas that they would be buried in ...

That's what I mean. I reckon it would have to be a bloody big earring to cover the cost of a coffin, even a canvas shroud, and the minister's fee.

Longarm, that's a a good point, although if one's grandfather wore an earring because it was generally fashionable rather than because he was a sailor then there's no reason why the grandson should do likewise if earrings were out of fashion by then.